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#1212444 - 06/05/09 08:22 PM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: Harmosis]
pianovirus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 952
Loc: Basel, Switzerland
Thanks Harmosis! A very helpful summary of the "code" (*)


(*) "First, your return to shore was not part of our negotiations nor our agreement, so it must do nothing, and secondly you must be a pirate for the Pirate's Code to apply and you're not, and thirdly the code is more of what you call guidelines than actual rules, welcome aboard the Black Pearl" laugh
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youtube.com/user/pianovirus

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#1212452 - 06/05/09 08:31 PM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: pianovirus]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11730
Loc: Canada
Ditto in the thanks, Harmosis.
What is a direct fifth, please?

KS

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#1212472 - 06/05/09 09:12 PM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: keystring]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13799
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Direct fifths occur when two voices land move to the interval of a fifth by similar motion. For example:

Soprano: A - C
Alto: C - F

Even though they're not parallel fifths (A-C and D-F), the aural effect is similar, so we try to avoid them where possible.

Like H said, this is one of those rules that isn't really emphasized. There are too many cases where they're unavoidable or actually sound fine. The most popular example is when the soprano moves by step:

Soprano: A - G
Alto: F - C

In my experience, if you pay attention to the other rules and try to keep the voice leading smooth and natural, the direct fifths and octaves tend to take care of themselves.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1212516 - 06/05/09 11:04 PM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: Kreisler]
DragonPianoPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 2368
Loc: Denver, CO
Thanks Kreisler and Harmosis,

Here we go, try number 3, this is all three authentic cadences on line 1 on exercise 1a.



And this is the three half cadences on line 2 of exercise 1a.



Let me know if this is better than the previous tries.

Thanks
Rich


Edited by DragonPianoPlayer (06/05/09 11:46 PM)
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#1212522 - 06/05/09 11:10 PM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: Kreisler]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5944
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Direct fifths occur when two voices land move to the interval of a fifth by similar motion. For example:

Soprano: A - C
Alto: C - F

Also known as exposed fifths (as we're pointing out alternative terminologies smile ).
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1212552 - 06/06/09 12:04 AM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: currawong]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11730
Loc: Canada
Thanks Kreisler and Currawong. With that last bit I got a hunch, googled, and discovered that half cadences are imperfect cadences. That takes care of all the terms, I think.

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#1212579 - 06/06/09 01:23 AM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: DragonPianoPlayer]
Harmosis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 308
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: DragonPianoPlayer
Thanks Kreisler and Harmosis,

Here we go, try number 3, this is all three authentic cadences on line 1 on exercise 1a.



And this is the three half cadences on line 2 of exercise 1a.



Let me know if this is better than the previous tries.

Thanks
Rich


These are all fine Rich. I don't like the direct 5ths on the 1st half cadence exercise (m2, alto & soprano), but since they give you the bass and soprano, there seems to be no avoiding it. The writer of this exercise didn't think it through very well!

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#1212619 - 06/06/09 05:26 AM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: Harmosis]
DragonPianoPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 2368
Loc: Denver, CO
Thanks Harmosis,

Working these types of exercises seem more like working Sudoku or Logic Puzzles. (Which I love doing.) Does that feeling ever go away, or is that just the nature of this type of exercise?

I found a way to get rid of the direct fifth, but the tenors would probably ambush the composer after practice for making them sing such high notes.



Rich
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#1212624 - 06/06/09 06:12 AM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: pianovirus]
DragonPianoPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 2368
Loc: Denver, CO
Can anyone explain the meaning or relevance to this exercise of the note on 1a Plagel Cadences?

"Note: When transposing into minor keys, minor dominant triads must be used to avoid awkward motions."

Also, I got something fairly close to pianovirus' result for the first sequence in 1b. However, in doing so, I noticed that both my result and his has a lot of direct fifths.



If you change the second chord of each measure to a 7th chord with no fifth, you remove the direct fifths. However, I don't care for the way the third measure sounds with this.



Amazing how much progress you can make with these exercises when you have a bit of insomnia. laugh

Rich


Edited by DragonPianoPlayer (06/06/09 06:22 AM)
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#1212659 - 06/06/09 09:22 AM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: DragonPianoPlayer]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13799
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: DragonPianoPlayer






This is exactly what I would've done. With the soprano and bass written that high, there's pretty much no choice but to send the tenor into the land of tight pants.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1212670 - 06/06/09 09:44 AM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: Kreisler]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11730
Loc: Canada
If you're really composing, couldn't you just move the bass down an octave? Or transpose into a friendlier key?

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#1212677 - 06/06/09 10:01 AM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: pianovirus]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13799
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Here's a quick #6 I put together this morning:

_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1213538 - 06/07/09 07:06 PM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: Harmosis]
photowriters Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 180
Loc: Kansas City
Originally Posted By: Harmosis
It seems to me that a review of some rules might be helpful:


It would also be helpful if there was some way to attach a Finale or Sibelius file to the post, but apparently that is not possible.
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Regards,

Bob

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#1213647 - 06/07/09 09:05 PM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: photowriters]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5944
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: photowriters
It would also be helpful if there was some way to attach a Finale or Sibelius file to the post, but apparently that is not possible.

But then wouldn't you need Finale or Sibelius to read it? I have Finale, but it's an old version - but I really like just seeing the examples, though I realise it's a bit more of an effort to post them.

I'm basically just lurking in this thread. If I were to post an example I think I'd have to scan an actual paper copy of the Finale page (or a hand-written page, as keystring is doing) and upload the scan to the PW uploader.
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Du holde Kunst...

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#1213729 - 06/08/09 12:56 AM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: currawong]
agent3x Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 147
Loc: United States
You could use Finale, take a screenshot with "print Scr," cut out what you don't need, and save the image as a jpeg, which is what I did.

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#1213761 - 06/08/09 02:51 AM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: agent3x]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5944
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: agent3x
You could use Finale, take a screenshot with "print Scr," cut out what you don't need, and save the image as a jpeg, which is what I did.

Good tip! For one or two exclusive-to-my-setup reasons this won't work, but it's still a good tip. smile
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Du holde Kunst...

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#1214395 - 06/09/09 03:14 AM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: currawong]
pianovirus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 952
Loc: Basel, Switzerland
Shall we go on with the next exercise, or what do you guys think?
_________________________
youtube.com/user/pianovirus

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#1214484 - 06/09/09 08:51 AM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: pianovirus]
DragonPianoPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 2368
Loc: Denver, CO
pianovirus,

I'm not ready to move on, but don't let me hold everyone else back.

Rich
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#1214647 - 06/09/09 12:51 PM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: DragonPianoPlayer]
pianovirus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 952
Loc: Basel, Switzerland
Originally Posted By: DragonPianoPlayer
pianovirus,

I'm not ready to move on, but don't let me hold everyone else back.

Rich


Oh I'm sorry Rich! I thought this has gone asleep. Let's wait of course - we're not in a hurry!
_________________________
youtube.com/user/pianovirus

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#1214838 - 06/09/09 05:52 PM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: pianovirus]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13799
Loc: Iowa City, IA
At some point, I'll make a post for a new set of exercises. There's no reason why both can't be active.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1254094 - 08/22/09 03:36 PM Re: Harmony Exercises - Post #1 [Re: Kreisler]
thinkingMusic Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Canada
Hello, "Harmony Exercises" thread participants;


My website, thinkingmusic.ca, may be of interest to some of you, as it is in large part dedicated to the study of classical harmony, and includes a number of in-depth articles and 'lessons' that refer specifically to Aldwell and Schachter's Harmony & Voice Leading. I teach classical and jazz harmony via long-distance technologies, and these 'lessons' are actual excerpts, taken from on-going lessons with students in Europe and N. America.

The following links will help you find your way around the site:

thinkingHarmony -- in-depth discussions of jazz and classical harmony

Classical Harmony -- using Aldwell & Schachter's "Harmony and Voice Leading"

Figured Bass -- what it is, and how it works

Common-tone Modulation


For those of you who love jazz and jazz harmony, the following links may be of interest:

Just Friends -- Detailed harmonic analysis of John Klenner's jazz classic.

Giant Steps, Central Park West, and Modulatory Cycles -- John Coltrane's harmonic technique.


Although I only teach a small number of students at any one time, those seeking committed, private, long-distance instruction in classical and/or jazz harmony can learn more at:

Music Theory Lessons -- private, long-distance instruction in jazz & classical harmony


There is also a thinkingmusic.ca discussion page, at www.discussion.thinkingmusic.ca


Wishing you the best in your music studies!

Michael Leibson
www.thinkingmusic.ca

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