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Hi everyone,

I'm looking into buying my first DP, and hoping for some advice. I have 13 years of classical training (on acoustics), but haven't played in a couple of years and am looking to start practicing again. I'm trying to keep the budget as low as possible (read: college student). I've seen recommendations around the forum for DPs under 1k, but those have been largely aimed at beginners, and I'm not sure how applicable they are to my case, since I'll be mainly working on advanced technique.

What is a realistic price range for me to look at? Out of this instrument I need first a realistic action, good enough to make practice at my level productive, as this will be my primary instrument. Secondary are decent sound through headphones and relative portability (needs to be keyboard + stand, box-type units are out). Bells and whistles like accompaniment tracks are irrelevant.

Of course, I'll try them out in person and base my decision on that, but I'd be grateful if you could point me towards some suitable models, and give me an indication of the prices I'll be looking at.

If it's relevant, I'm in Toronto, Canada.

Many thanks,
J.

Sounds like you want something with at least at GH or GHE action. Something that is portable and can be placed on a desk in a dorm room. You want optional pedal inputs and perhaps the option to add a stand later. You don't want a lot of buttons or bells and whistles. Probably something like the Yamaha P-155. Have you though about buying used? It might get you a much better instrument for an entry level price. Try Craigslist.

I'd try Roland, Yamaha, Casio, Kawai at a music store to see which touch you prefer. All major brands are good, each has their own technology for the mechanics of the keys. For $1000 you can just get into the better keyboard actions in each brand. Once you pick a touch that you like, ask a question again for recommendations on a specific model of that brand. I agree with the previous poster that buying used might be a good route. You can get very good deals right now.

Actually, for a new DP, $1000 doesn't give you so many choices. For Yamaha, the P-140 or (possibly) P-155 (but the P-155 is probably $1200 or more). The Casio Privia line, which is ok, but not the best (PX-130, etc.) Korg, the SP-250 or SP-350. And for Roland and Kawai, not much that's new.

Of these, I'd look at the Korg and P-140 first. But with your budget, a recent used DP might be better.

Thanks for the advice, guys. Yes, I was looking at the P-155. I will be buying a stand right away, the portability is mainly for ease of transport, by car and plane, which I foresee in the near future. I will also be buying a 3-pedal set if the unit doesn't come with one.

I'm open to buying used. About how much of a price drop should I expect between new and used around the 1k mark?

It sounds from what you've said like each brand's signature touch is roughly consistent even between models with different actions, is this assumption correct?

Edit. 1k is more of a guideline than a limit. I'd like to stay close to that, but if the gains are sufficient, I don't mind spending an extra couple hundred.

dRummie, is your $1k limit USD or CAD?

I am not terribly familiar with the cost of digital piano instruments in Canada, however assuming the prices are comparable with the US, it may be worth searching online to gain an idea of what is available within your budget.

For example:

http://www.sweetwater.com/c506--Stage_Pianos/low2high

As Geoffk notes, the current models from Yamaha, Roland, KAWAI, and Korg are a little outside of your budget. However, if you are prepared to purchase a second hand instrument, I am confident that a good quality model can be purchased for under $1000.

Kind regards,
James
x

Hi James. The 1k is CAD, but like I said, it's more of a guideline. I've tried searching, but all that gives me is model numbers and specs, and I was hoping to get some recommendations here based on personal experience I know from buying higher-end headphones that oftentimes a few units stand out in any given price range.

Buying used is looking progressively more attractive. I'm going to try to stop by a music store tomorrow and post back here with a more specific question as MarkL suggested.

If you find a decent 3-pedal unit, let me know. I think that will be a challenge.

Like I said earlier, finding a used unit might be his best bet considering his budget, in which case it won't be such a challenge.

Don't get your hopes up on economically being able to transport a full sized 88 key digital piano on an airline. You will not be able to carry it on and will be required to check it either in its original shipping box or in an expensive, heavy IATA approved reinforced gig box. You will be charged extra baggage charges for something that is oversized and overweight that depending on the airline will cost several hundred dollars one way, perhaps exceeding your ticket cost.

Depending on the digital piano you choose, buying a case and taking one return flight might cost as much or more as buying digital piano at your destination and leaving it behind when you go.

Journey - I foresee a move by plane in about a year, not regular travel, so worse comes to worst I'll sell it here and by another one there. Another reason to buy used, I guess. Although I'm guessing these things are even more expensive in Europe...

Depending on how long you will be in Europe, you might want to consider having it shipped by UPS or someone else. It is probably worth at least checking the shipping price.

I had nine yrs. of classical lessons
as a child, on acoustic pianos only.
I quit in high school and didn't
play for 20 yrs.

I'm a serious amateur classical player, and since restarting as an
adult, I've owned 5 pianos:
a top-of-the-line acoustic upright
bought in the early 1980's
for ~$6000 (a similar model today
would be in the ~$20,000 price
range); a Korg C-800 digital
bought in 1989 for $1700; a
Casio AP-24 digital bought
sight-unseen online in 2005 for
$700; a Korg SP-250 digital
bought sight-unseen online in
2006 for $900; and my current
piano, a Williams Overture digital
bought sight-unseen online in
2009 for $600.
So you can see from the above that
with me the trend has been towards
less and less expensive instruments,
even as my playing has gotten
more advanced: ~$20,000(~$6000)
---> $1700 ---> $700 ---> $900
---> $600.

I've worked on the same classical
repertoire on all five pianos,
including the most difficult
pieces like the Chopin op. 14
Concert Rondo. I've found
inexpensive digitals to be
adequate for working on
serious classical repertoire.
All weighted-key digital pianos
have sound taken from a concert
grand and an action patterned
after a concert grand action, and
so even inexpensive ones under
$1000 are okay for playing
even the most difficult classical
repertoire.

It varies a little by brand and model, but as an example I bought my Yamaha P-90 used about 2 years ago for $350 and it probably sold for $1000 when it came out new in 2003. That was cheap because it was local and the guy wouldn't ship. A more reasonable price would be $500-600. I have a friend who has a P-250 for sale for $750, it probably sold for a few thousand when it was new. So I'd say expect anywhere from 30%-60% discount from the street price depending on how old it is.


I'd say it a little differently. The things people like and dislike about a brand are somewhat consistent between models with different actions. So a brand noted for a heavier touch will generally be reported to have a heavier touch across all it's models. But you do get something for your money as you step up the model line. For example in the Yamaha line, I can tell the difference between the entry level touch and the next step up.



Note that getting 3 pedal capability on a portable DP could easily cost you all of that couple hundred. It's not just a matter of buying 3 pedals, you have to buy a special device (or two) that allows you to add that capability. It's possible some of the more expensive portables support 3 pedals out of the box, but I'm not aware of any.

I'll definitely check out the shipping when the time comes. For now, though, it'll have to travel by car, so I'm still leaning towards a board + stand set-up.

So I stopped by a music store today and tried some pianos. Overall I liked the Korg C-720 best, but it's a console and out of my budget. The SP-250 has the same action, which I really liked. However, I found the sounds lacking, and this was especially apparent after trying the 720. I've realized that I underestimated how important good sound is, so now I'm wondering what can be done to improve the sound out of the 250, since Korg doesn't seem to offer a more senior portable model... I also ran into the problem MarkL mentioned with it being able to support only one pedal.

They also had some Kurzweil, which I didn't try, and a Casio Privia that I wasn't immediately impressed by, but whose model number I don't recall. The Roland FP-4 felt much too light. I'll be going back to give all the pianos a more lengthy audition, and also looking for a Yamaha dealer.

So for now I'm wondering what people's opinions are on the Korg, and whether it's worth investing in that plus some upgrades (pedal, sound). Regarding the sound, I'm interested in the computer-based piano emulator I've seen mentioned around the forum, but how much would such a set-up cost?

Thanks for all the advice so far, you've all been a great help.

If you have a computer there may anothter alternative. You might buy a software piano (200-300$) plus a good master keyboard. That way you will have a great sound and a good keyboard. Problem of course is that you have to turn on the computer to play, that you still need boxes or headphones, and of course pedals. But moneywise this may be the best solution for you.

I'd try to play the CP33. It has two pedal inputs which means you'd only have to buy a simpler midi device to add the 3d pedal, probably only cost about $100 or so.


Never played a Korg, can't comment. Sound is easy to change, so I wouldn't pay any attention to what the pianos sound like. Software pianos sound much better than any DP in my opinion. If you have a half way decent computer you can probably use it to run a software piano and send the output through your stereo. There are different kinds of software pianos, some require more disk and cpu than others, but all require a sound card with low latency, and obviously a slot to put the card in. The card isn't expensive, google Audiophile 2496 as an example which is under $100. Software pianos vary a good bit in price, I use Truepianos which cost $180, but you can spend a lot more if you want to. The cables to hook it all up will cost another $50 or so.

I'm very open to the keyboard + software piano option. I'd need to buy the soundcard, but my laptop should be able to handle the software. I'm a little worried about computer noises disrupting my practice sessions, though.

I'll look into both keyboards and standalone DPs when I can get to a store that carries both. Given that the computer portion will cost me $300-400, can a good master keyboard be had for under 1k CAD new, or would I have to go used with this option, too?

Edit. I should mention that I'm not factoring headphones into this, as I already have two pairs that are decent.

But laptop won't accept an audio card. There are external cards that will work with laptops, but that's outside my experience. Not sure what you mean by computer noises.


Not sure everyone uses jargon the same, I think of a master keyboard as a synthesizer, which doesn't have weighted keys and is not suitable for you. You can use pretty much any DP to do most of what you probably want with midi, given that you're a pianist and not a DJ/rock star.


Headphones eliminate the need for speakers or stereo system. Headphones also sound way better than any speaker setup you're likely to be able to afford.

I was thinking of external audio cards for the laptop, since I've seen them mentioned around the forum. I do also have a desktop, but if possible, I'd prefer to use the laptop for portability's sake. By computer noises I meant mainly fans, but also the noise made by accessing the hard drive.

I'm not too sure of the jargon myself. By "keyboard" I guess I meant something where the focus is on action alone, whereas in my mind a "digital piano" is made to have a decent sound system built in. But it's really a moot point, suffice it to say that I'll try anything I can get my hands on