Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Lost a student today

That communication is so important! I even have that as a part of my policy, and many parents have mentioned they appreciate that. Giving the teacher a chance to switch gears when the goals and lives of students change is so important. Many times parents think "it's all or nothing" or that "this is how she teaches, and if things change, we can't take lessons anymore." I personally attribute that to a lack of problem-solving skills on their part.

My husband owns a business and has several employees under him, and we see time and time again, the lack of ability for people to solve problems either in their work or their personal lives. People see a scheduling conflict between a recital and a sports event, and think "it won't work," rather than try and think of a way it can work. That's what I call "focusing on the problem, not the solution." Even after years of teaching students and training them and their parents in working around schedule conflicts, I still am flabbergasted at how easily people give up without even talking with me about alternatives. Then they call and say they can't make something, when in fact, I can give them a different time, or work around the problem.

"Think of it as giving your employer 2 weeks' notice. It's common courtesy vs. saying "I quit" and storm out the door."

The above quote indicates that teachers do not understand the relationship between student and teacher.

The student/parent is the employer. The teacher is the employee. An employee may be fired/dismissed for a variety of reasons. Many employers do not provide a lenghty explanation as to the why.

Remember teacher = employee.

Cheers,

A happy student.

"teacher = employee" This is just as silly as thinking that as a teacher you're somehow an employer. The fact of the matter is:

teacher = a business which sells a service
student = a customer who buys a service

A student who thinks they are employing me has really not understood the idea of being your own boss and selling "stuff" to customers. I would not sell a service to a customer who treated me like dirt, or like some sort of servant.

But when my good customers are fussy or annoying I am usually prepared to consider it a "loss leader".

Even then, good employers take steps to help their employees get it right and give their employees advance notice if lay-offs are coming or if things weren't working out.

The only time a good employer would let an employee go immediately without warning would be in cases where the the law was broken or breach of contract. (For example, sexual harassment, stealing or embezzling, etc...)

So you're right, employers don't have to let you know why you've been fired; but this isn't about what's required, it's about what's respectful.

Welcome to the forum, Plester102!

The teacher/student relationship is a tricky one. On the one hand you are correct that the parent/student is the employer and the teacher the employee. Employers can and do dismiss employees at will... and many employers will deliberately not give notice when they do so, for excellent reasons. (If you're firing an incompetent maid, for example, you'd be wise to collect his or her keys right then and there and not have them working in your house any longer.) As long as the O.P. didn't have an established studio policy requiring greater advance notice, the family was operating within their rights to terminate lessons as they did.

But as any of the teachers on this forum can attest, the teacher-student relationship is also a personal one. Many of the teachers are literally welcoming their students into their homes, and their lives. Friendships arise, especially with adult students. Boundaries are unclear, even messy. I am not at all surprised to hear that most of the teachers interpret the phone call 5 minutes before the assigned lesson time as a slap to the face. I probably would, too.

The solution, imo, is to be explicit upfront in one's teaching policy and your initial interviews with prospective students. It would not be out of line to include a discussion of how lessons should end, if and when it comes to that.

If I were to get all professorial here, I'd start ruminating about how the piano teacher/student relationship is highly interesting in social psychological terms, because it represents inconsistent role/power relationships: the student (or the student's parents) possess higher legitimate power in the relationship (to use French and Raven's terminology regarding the bases of power), but the teacher has higher expert power and, most of the time, referent power. Makes things very complicated.

[Monica stops before everybody falls asleep.]

Pretty much everything I wrote in that long and boring post above could be summarized in these 9 words.

That's simplistic and not totally accurate.

If you are my student, my only student, and thus pay my wages, I am in an obvious dependent situation. You can decide to "fire" me at any time, and I'm going to be in a horrible fix.

Most of us have dozens of students. Certainly any one of my students can decide to quit lessons with me, with little or no reason, and this happens occasionally. However, if you are a student I don't like, one who is not listening, not respectful, doing no work, I can and will "fire" you.

I do fire students. If I am angry enough, it is instant. I literally open the door, say this lesson is over, and make it very clear that I am done.

Furthermore, students who quit lessons with a good teacher often shoot themselves in the foot. Here is an example:

A family stopped lessons with me at the end of a prior year. No notice, no explanation. They hired a teacher to come to their home. That teacher then proceeded to use my materials and in over a year's time did nothing more than put metronome markings in my music. Nothing was learned, and things were lost. When that family called back, asking me to take their child back, at first I said no. When I agreed, I was explicit about the fact that I expected cooperation, and how. And I said, up front, that at the first sign of disrespect, I would end the lessons.

So there are some practical reasons for not burning bridges.

Monika, I love that long, boring, and very informative post. Don't worry, we'll read it.

You're right, I had it backwards. I certainly didn't mean that the teacher is the employer, but the analogy was in reference to common courtesy in the business world. However, as Kreisler pointed out, a good employer gives 2 weeks' severance pay, unless there are extenuating circumstances for firing an employee (illegal activity, etc.).

Plester,

I can see that you emphatically think in the above terms because you are purchasing piano lessons from a piano teacher as a student. I am also glad to read that you are a happy student. However, I must challenge your comment about employer - employee.

I am the owner-operator-manager of a 38 year old business and I consider myself a professional piano teacher because of my reputation and track record as well as my membership in MTNA (Music Teacher's National Association".

I charge a yearly tuition of which there are 10 monthly payments due for 12 months of service. A have a contract which the parents or adult students sign representing both of us in our expectations of each other. I provide good music services with a serious sense of responsibility to the client and they meet my expectations of payments on time, appointments kept, 24 hour notice of an absence, and a 30 day termination notice to be given.

My students stay many years with me for study which is another indicatation that all services I provide are satisfactory. My students keep their "word" with me as per the contract.

When a student is leaving the studio, I want to hear from the parent because they are the signer of our contract. I would want the adult student to represent themself, too. I want to have this conversation in person because the details of the quitting can often be worked out to everyone's satisfaction. One of the things I consider necessary for successful piano lessons is that we work together as a team to keep the student in lessons. Obstacles occur from time to time and the impulse to quit is an easy solution to make. It takes no brains. Discussing any real problem with the teacher is a requirement if the parent is going to work to make sure their financial investment does not get wasted. I have many strategies about preventing quitting - not to keep "employed" - but to assist in making other viewpoints known about solving the problems that interfere with piano lessons. I consult and I counsel - I don't give up on these people very easily because I have promised them a music education which is what they were looking for in the first place. I want to help them achieve what they were looking for.

If the student has had problems in any way, it is my duty, I think, to interact with the family and help us find solutions that work. Coming to piano lessons for half of an hour or for one hour per week is only part of what we do. I am in their lives, and they are in mine. I am responsible to them and they are responsible to me. Our stated purpose for working together is an important purpose and we must not let the ordinary or the unexpected swerve us from our commitment.

I differ with you only because I have the experience of this having been my life's work and ambition. If a person thought of me as simply his employee and he was the employer, I would not consider working for them. I am the teacher, I am the musician, I am the hard working provider of services, and I choose whom I want to work with. Not every one I meet is offered a place in my studio - I have certain things that I am looking for in the interview as to the student's profile for readiness and interest in taking piano lessons. With my studio policy and contract I am assured that they will give their study with me prominance in their schedule, transportation, and payment.

Anyone who does the business end casually can be rejected by people who simply stop coming and are not vested enough in the learning process of becoming a musician, is simply asking for disappointment, rejection and unfinished emotional business in their lives. Teachers take it to heart when insulted by such rudeness from any one they have invested their time and effort.

This is education, this is an art form, this is successfully patterning someone's brain with musical experiences for growth and development. Knowing how to teach is a requirement. This is a huge investment of our knowledge and musical talents to ensure that other humans continue the legacy of music for mankind. This is no small thing that we do. Yes, I most certainly do feel this way.

"Education is more than preparation for life, it is life itself." John Dewey

"Music gives a Soul to the universe, Wings to the mind, Flight to the imagination, and Life to everything." Plato

Betty

In some cultures, teachers are gods. At a piano festival last year, I saw a father and his daughter saying good-bye to their piano teacher, and they gave her a respectful bow. I evaluate hundreds of piano students each year at their annual exam, and last year one girl bowed to me as she said good-bye. For some reason, these respectful girls play the piano masterfully. Perhaps they view the teacher-student relationship as more of a master-disciple relationship and less as a business transaction.

I don't mind teachers being thought of as employees, but I think it's important to know exactly what you're paying for:

You are paying for the *availability* of *help* in *learning*

Unfortunately, people often think that when you hire a teacher, you're paying for an education. You're not. You're paying for the availability of a service.

In a lot of ways, teachers are employed just like the cable company is "employed" by subscribers. The cable company promises that, should you turn your television on and tune in to certain channels at certain times, moving pictures will show up on the screen.

Whether or not you turn the television on, pay attention to what's there, or try out the cooking tips and recipes on the FOOD network is up to you.

But too often, people hire teachers thinking that's enough. Hire the tutor, get a better math score. Hire a piano teacher, be able to play the piano. But that's like saying "Pay for cable TV, learn History."

No, you have to tune into the history channel and pay attention.

I love what you wrote, AZN, because I know it to be true from my teaching experiences, too. When I lived in California by studio had a majority of Oriental families with whom piano lessons are a very serious thing, the children practiced earnestly and their manners were impeccable when dealing with the teacher. The thank you was there after every lesson with a nod or a bow. For me the years were (1971 to 1975) and then again when we returned to California (1980).

Since 1981, in Washington State, I have not had the same ratio, but the Oriental students I have had remain a step above in ability, production, and respect for the teacher.

I think it must be a joy for you to receive such honor from the students you adjudicate and teach. It's nice to see that some families have big expectations for success and do all that they can in being supportive. They look to you and value your contribution and leadership and possibly, your every word.

Others may have different opinions, but, I'm just remembering that I had good experiences with people from these cultures too.

Good points. There is another matter to. In an employer/employee situation, the employer calls all the shots. Or most of them, usually.

If a student/teacher is that way, with the student looking at the teacher as just a hired servant, so to speak, not much is going to be learned.

Some of the teacher replies regarding the teacher/student relationship is certainly interesting.
If any teacher (even a piano GOD) presented a year’s agreement with an extensive list of rules and regulations for my signature before I could begin lessons – I would be long gone.
I do not consider myself an employer but a consumer. And, as a consumer of a piano teacher’s service -- i.e. lessons, I will always have the power. Because I have the money to purchase that service.


I do not understand why this concept is so difficult to grasp.

Cheers,

A happy student

Well of course you're at liberty to think of it how you wish, and I'm glad you're a happy student . No teacher wants a student to have no power, I don't think. I certainly don't. But the downside of your summary of the relationship is that if you feel you are just paying for a lesson that may be all you get. I'm not sure you'd be a happy student if your teacher just taught your half-hour lesson and never gave you another thought, or did any extra preparation, or spent time improving his skills, or maintained his piano.

Your teacher also has the "power" to tell you to get lost.

Apparently you think that as a "consumer" that any teacher, even a very good one, can be replaced by another.

Good luck with that idea…

Perhaps it is because many people disagree with you! Don't expect the whole world to think the same way you do.

And what do you say to teachers who teach for free?

I grasped your posting just fine. However, I think there is more to your being an employer than just being able to pay the bill. And, I don't subscribe to your equation at all as I've previously said.

I don't understand why you are so oppositional to my version of the transaction between student and teach are for piano teaching services.

We are, of course, oppositional, but I believe you can find someone who will teach your way.

Let me ask you: How many teachers have you employed in this employer relationship so far? What are your requirements of this teacher? If you can hire, you can fire. Have you done that? Have you actually held a role of employer having to account to the government for your business transactions? Do you keep records?

I don't think you are the employer in the way that I am thinking an employer acts toward an employee. You are simply wanting to pay your bill like you pay utilities, rent, buy food, put gas in the car, etc.

To turn on utilities in the first place and to rent property or own property, there are contracts with stipulations in them. The utility company and the mortagage companies also have you in their hot little hands.

You have more control over the food you buy and the gas you put in the car. You can choose where to shop and what to buy. But, the payment is due at purchase and you have no further control once you have spent the money.

Have you really found a teacher who knows your attitude and has accepted you anyway? Without a contract you have no recourse with the teacher. The only thing you will be able to do is "vote with your feet". When I sign a contract with my student, I am writing about the services I will provide over one year's time. My contract is a legal document between two responsible people. I think this contract between us represents "ownership". We both own the projected outcome and that plan is for the success of the student.

When you pay per lesson it suggests that neither of you wishes to commit to next week - neither of you is investing in the relationship of student and teacher.

I see myself as a professional and I see my students as my clients until the termination comes effective. One of us will terminate at some future time it's a given. I think the odds are that we will conduct a cordial end and have good things to say about the time we spend together.

You could get so much more for your money, I think.

I have to mention that I'll take Plester seriously when he exceeds two posts and shows some genuine desire to communicate rather than just stir things up.