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#1257579 - 08/28/09 12:00 AM Suggestion for very first piano lesson book?
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1239
Loc: Ohio, US
My almost 7 year old is interested in learning piano. He spends plenty of time just messing around at the keyboard. He doesn't pick out anything by ear, but does gravitate toward notes that sound good together. He was spending alot of time for a while with a Jumpstart educational computer program that had a music portion to it aimed at first graders and seemed to catch on to it well. He can sing with the radio "in tune". When asked he says he would like lessons sometimes and then other times he'll say he just wants me to teach him. I'd love to send him for lessons, but I just don't see it happening right now financially. I haven't been playing long myself. I would never consider trying to teach someone elses' kids, I'm clearly not qualified as a pianist, but I would like to teach my son. I don't want to simply "wait until we have the money" because there's no way to know when exactly that will be. I feel I'd rather risk him learning a few bad habits that might be hard to fix later than to spend a year or two or more just puttering with no direction and not learning anything.

I spent some time with him the other day with an old primer level lesson book from a pile of books I got from someone just to see if he would actually sit and take directions, play what was on a page instead of whatever he wanted, etc. He was able to play a one line "First March" on the black keys by finger number and I was able to keep his attention for a good 15 minutes with no problem. My big question now before I actually start him into this is what book would it be best for me to use with him considering that I'm not a music teacher? I have a couple of old "first" books but I don't want to just use whatever's lying around. My background is in education and I've seen my share of poorly written textbooks in the classroom. I'd like to at least start him off with a decent lesson book so that we have a chance for this to work and also so that if I'm able to start him with a teacher later on I'll be able give them a better idea of what he's been introduced to or done than just "we did a few pages of this, then a little of that and then some of the other thing...". I've read a few threads where you've made suggestions about differnt book series to each other but since music isn't what I normally teach I figured what you would recomend to someone in my situation may be differnt.
_________________________
I'll figure it out eventually.
Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.


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#1257695 - 08/28/09 07:52 AM Re: Suggestion for very first piano lesson book? [Re: Little_Blue_Engine]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13818
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Most of the major methods are written with 7-9 year old beginners in mind, so any of the standard methods should work. The Music Tree is written with a slightly younger student in mind and begins with "pre-reading" concepts. However, it's difficult to use, and if you're not comfortable with its presentation and sequencing, it's probably best to stick with something more traditional.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1257726 - 08/28/09 09:21 AM Re: Suggestion for very first piano lesson book? [Re: Kreisler]
Lollipop Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Georgia
The Faber & Faber Piano Adventures series is really detailed - spells out exactly what to do, especially if you use all four books together (lessons, theory, technique, performance). I think it's a great series, especially for the less confident teacher. Plus they have a website where you can see video clips of how to teach various concepts. And I bet you would cement some concepts in yourself as you were teaching, too!

I taught my daughter (my sons took elsewhere - I only "helped" when they got stuck). It is hard to be as consistent with your own kid, but it worked pretty well for us. She was taking violin lessons, and needed a lower-maintenance piano program.
_________________________
piano teacher

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#1257744 - 08/28/09 09:46 AM Re: Suggestion for very first piano lesson book? [Re: Lollipop]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12215
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I second the Piano Adventures. I think if you read through it prior to teaching him, then you'll do fine. Definitely check out their website: www.pianoteaching.com for the videos. I think that you may want to gradually increase your son's lesson time to 30 minutes over a period of weeks, and sit with him during practice sessions at about 15 minutes per day. Consistency will help him develop good practice habits that will make it much easier when you are able to pay for lessons. Make it a part of his routine, and have his weekly "lesson" time scheduled like any other appointment.

The biggest things you will want to keep an eye out for are: technique and rhythm. With technique, understand that he will begin playing on the black keys, reading pre-staff notation. On the black keys, it is OK for a flatter finger shape. When he gets to the white keys, however, it is important that the first joint int he finger doesn't collapse and result in flat-finger playing here. His fingers are certainly strong enough to maintain a slightly curved shape, but you may have to keep reminding him. Stay on it, as you don't want him to get used to improper shape. Also, it is important that you don't have him play with fingers that are *too* curved either. However, sometimes having him play with really curved fingers is a good way to get him out of the habit of playing with flat fingers, then you gradually work on relaxing the shape a bit.

For rhythm, once he gets beyond playing with lots of finger numbers on each note and is playing on the regular staff notation, that is the best time to have him count out loud. He should be saying the beat numbers out loud while he plays all the time until he learns a song well, then he can stop for that piece. But he should learn every piece with counting out loud. It's harder at first, but like anything, you do it enough, and it becomes second-nature. He may resist you on this and complain it's too hard, but really it forces him to practice slowly, to think about the rhythm he's playing, and to read intervals rather than all note names or all finger numbers, and this is extremely important.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#1257751 - 08/28/09 09:54 AM Re: Suggestion for very first piano lesson book? [Re: Little_Blue_Engine]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7417
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Last night, following a lesson, I spent an additional 45 min with mom and dad and student, discussing the coming year, progress student had made, deficiencies student had overcome.

Student is entering the 5th grade, had started with me exactly a year ago. Student had two years of lessons with "friend" who plays the piano and was teaching student kind of as a hobby.

This student is highly gifted, very musical, and has a natural mechanism, loves music and has lofty goals. Not surprising, I learned that grandmother is a professional violinist, something they had failed to tell me initially. Mom had studied piano but not gone very far. Parents seemed genuinely surprised student had talent! Student should be straight A student in school, but isn't. Parents need to explore this as well.

Most of last year was spent in a tug of war trying to inculcate good learning habits into student, overcoming major deficiencies, and making some progress on repertoire. I have had several student with lessor abilities starting at the same time, and get far further ahead. To put it another way, this 5th grade student is where my typical 3rd grade student is.

I relate all of this because foundation studies are extremely important. The pianist's foundation must be laid in correctly and quickly, so that by the time the student reaches 6th grade, and emotionally, their world begins to expand, they have the proficiency and practice skills to continue learning through the turbulent middle school years and then through the overburdened high school years.

As you asked on a piano teacher's forum, I will give you advice that will serve your student well: stop looking for teaching materials, and start looking for a highly competent teacher. Find ways to adjust your budget to make lessons with this teacher happen.

Best of fortune and musical experiences to your "almost 7 year old."

John
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1257757 - 08/28/09 10:00 AM Re: Suggestion for very first piano lesson book? [Re: John v.d.Brook]
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1267
Loc: California
Another thumbs up for Piano Adventures. smile
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

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#1257847 - 08/28/09 11:30 AM Re: Suggestion for very first piano lesson book? [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12215
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
Last night, following a lesson, I spent an additional 45 min with mom and dad and student, discussing the coming year, progress student had made, deficiencies student had overcome.

Student is entering the 5th grade, had started with me exactly a year ago. Student had two years of lessons with "friend" who plays the piano and was teaching student kind of as a hobby.

This student is highly gifted, very musical, and has a natural mechanism, loves music and has lofty goals. Not surprising, I learned that grandmother is a professional violinist, something they had failed to tell me initially. Mom had studied piano but not gone very far. Parents seemed genuinely surprised student had talent! Student should be straight A student in school, but isn't. Parents need to explore this as well.

Most of last year was spent in a tug of war trying to inculcate good learning habits into student, overcoming major deficiencies, and making some progress on repertoire. I have had several student with lessor abilities starting at the same time, and get far further ahead. To put it another way, this 5th grade student is where my typical 3rd grade student is.

I relate all of this because foundation studies are extremely important. The pianist's foundation must be laid in correctly and quickly, so that by the time the student reaches 6th grade, and emotionally, their world begins to expand, they have the proficiency and practice skills to continue learning through the turbulent middle school years and then through the overburdened high school years.

As you asked on a piano teacher's forum, I will give you advice that will serve your student well: stop looking for teaching materials, and start looking for a highly competent teacher. Find ways to adjust your budget to make lessons with this teacher happen.

Best of fortune and musical experiences to your "almost 7 year old."

John


John, I agree 100% that getting a good teacher is ideal and the best possible way. But the OP made the original comment that it was not possible at this time. I'd think that rather than depriving the child, as long as efforts were made within 6 months or so to find a good teacher for him, it wouldn't be a problem.

The OP said that they had some experience with piano, so I wonder if they are taking lessons? If so, perhaps their teacher would be willing to give lessons to the child, perhaps take some time out of the adult's lesson time?
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#1257851 - 08/28/09 11:35 AM Re: Suggestion for very first piano lesson book? [Re: Little_Blue_Engine]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12215
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Little_Blue_Engine
I would never consider trying to teach someone elses' kids, I'm clearly not qualified as a pianist, but I would like to teach my son.


After going back to read the OP, I noticed this statement. Not to come off as rude or anything, but I'm a very direct person: If it is not appropriate for you to teach other children because of your lack of expertise, then why would it be OK to teach your own child?
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#1257859 - 08/28/09 11:49 AM Re: Suggestion for very first piano lesson book? [Re: Morodiene]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4981
Loc: boston north
Just a suggestion:

I would not use a music book with your child, nor try to teach him 'too much' from standard books at the moment.

I would suggest though to continue to explore playing and music without books. Give him a great background of listening, fooling around with highs/lows, black keys, white keys, repetition of patterns on keys, and maybe even finger numbers in the air.

Let the excitement and anticipation of waiting for lessons with a qualified music teacher build.

Teachers have a background of how to introduce reading, playing and what books match which students.

There are many things that you can do to enrich his pre-lessons music exploration.

We have listed many in the past on this forum, but if you want, I am sure that we could make a few more suggestions!

Hope you take this with the desired intention.
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1257867 - 08/28/09 12:07 PM Re: Suggestion for very first piano lesson book? [Re: Morodiene]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7417
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
John, I agree 100% that getting a good teacher is ideal and the best possible way. But the OP made the original comment that it was not possible at this time. I'd think that rather than depriving the child, as long as efforts were made within 6 months or so to find a good teacher for him, it wouldn't be a problem.

The OP said that they had some experience with piano, so I wonder if they are taking lessons? If so, perhaps their teacher would be willing to give lessons to the child, perhaps take some time out of the adult's lesson time?


About 8 years ago, I had a student whose mom (single) earned under $12k. She found a way to pay for lessons. You might have to give up the cell phone, the cable, wear cloths from Salvation Army (which are often quite nice, actually) but if you have a will, there's a way.

A poor first teacher will end up costing your far more in the long run, even though it seems expedient at the time.

Finally, it took us decades to become the teachers we are today. Do you really want to experiment on your own kid?
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1257898 - 08/28/09 12:47 PM Re: Suggestion for very first piano lesson book? [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Rachel J Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 325
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
I know this is shamelessly self-promoting, but hope it's not considered a faux-pas in this situation. I recently published a piano method that I, of course, think is very good. Because so few people are using it yet, I have time to provide a lot of support by email or phone to anyone willing to give it a try. If you are interested, please check out my web site and drop me an email.

I will say, though, that if I weren't using my own materials, Piano Adventures would be the method of choice. It's very good.
_________________________
Rachel Jimenez Piano teacher in Brooklyn, NY / Author of Fundamental Keys method
My professional website: FundamentalKeys.com
Latest blog post: "A marvelous pianist and mentor"

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#1258509 - 08/29/09 12:37 PM Re: Suggestion for very first piano lesson book? [Re: Morodiene]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1239
Loc: Ohio, US
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: Little_Blue_Engine
I would never consider trying to teach someone elses' kids, I'm clearly not qualified as a pianist, but I would like to teach my son.


After going back to read the OP, I noticed this statement. Not to come off as rude or anything, but I'm a very direct person: If it is not appropriate for you to teach other children because of your lack of expertise, then why would it be OK to teach your own child?


Maybe a better way to put it would be that I would not present myself as being qualified to teach someone else's child and take them on as a student in the traditional sense. Simply having experience teaching and having some knowledge of music doesn't make me a music teacher, but we all have experience teaching our childeren things we aren't "qualified" to. Most of us teach our kids to read simple words and sentences before they start school even though we don't have elementary teaching certificates and have never taken emerging literacy courses in college.
_________________________
I'll figure it out eventually.
Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.


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#1258528 - 08/29/09 01:20 PM Re: Suggestion for very first piano lesson book? [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1239
Loc: Ohio, US
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook


About 8 years ago, I had a student whose mom (single) earned under $12k. She found a way to pay for lessons. You might have to give up the cell phone, the cable, wear cloths from Salvation Army (which are often quite nice, actually) but if you have a will, there's a way.

I've never been really loose with the money for most things. I don't usually shop Salvation Army because our local store is dimly lit and they price their stuff too high, but I'm a frequent and loyal Goodwill shopper and garage sales and have occasionally been known to shop the "free store on the side of the road" for some things. I think it's important though to be careful about which "luxuries" get cut out of the budget because if I eliminate something that affects the entire family, like cable, for something that benefits one child there is likely to be anger and resentment among everyone and even the child getting the lessons may grow to resent them when he figures out they are the reason he can't watch Noggin or Boomerang anymore. I'm going to look for a way to fit lessons in but I want to be careful about it.
_________________________
I'll figure it out eventually.
Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.


Top
#1258557 - 08/29/09 02:27 PM Re: Suggestion for very first piano lesson book? [Re: Little_Blue_Engine]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7417
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Little_Blue_Engine
I think it's important though to be careful about which "luxuries" get cut out of the budget because if I eliminate something that affects the entire family, like cable, for something that benefits one child there is likely to be anger and resentment among everyone and even the child getting the lessons may grow to resent them when he figures out they are the reason he can't watch Noggin or Boomerang anymore. I'm going to look for a way to fit lessons in but I want to be careful about it.


This is a very interesting and very telling reply.

My sister and spouse eliminated tv from the house when child #1 arrived. Their thinking wasn't driven so much by money issues, although they did have some, rather, it was that there was so little actual value from having a tv that they couldn't justify the expense. Anything important news-wise would be on the radio or in the newspaper. They felt reading was far more important developmental activity.

Now the student I mentioned did have a tv, but no cable service. Watched movies they got from the library.

My wife & I both grew up in households which shared your viewpoint, but we disagreed with the premise, so we explained to our children that each child would get what we felt they needed to prepare for life. If one child got sick, it didn't mean the other would get feel good items as well. If one of them had special talents which needed developing, and we had to spend more doing so, that was just the way is was going to be. Get over it now, because you'll get what you need. Of course, luxuries would be shared, but there was little money for luxuries, in reality. They don't appear to have suffered any the worse for it!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1258603 - 08/29/09 03:38 PM Re: Suggestion for very first piano lesson book? [Re: Little_Blue_Engine]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
I am hopeful that you can find piano lessons for your child from an experienced piano teacher with a good reputation for working with beginners and bringing them to competency and independence at the piano. This could be a 3-4-5 year endeavor for your family to launch a successful young learning musician.

In my opinion, the first teacher is the very most important teacher because this is the place where the musical foundation for the future is laid. It is important to cover all of the structures of the elements of music in a sequence that makes sense to the learning style of the student. Know what to teach, when to teach it, and how to teach it is not a thing of good luck, it is knowledge about the brain, about learning processes, and about knowing music - it's theory, it's techniques, it's history.

What you could be doing is getting books, CD's and video's from the library that are geared to general music experiences and not piano specific at this time. You could be singing together which will be helpful to his piano experience later.

Do you have a "good" piano at home on which he can practice?

Perhaps there are other steps in preparing for the lessons he will take in the future that you could be addressing now for next year or the year after. I would advocate a later starting date if it will make a difference as to the kind of lessons he will be receiving.

There will also be many things you can do to be supportive to him when he starts lessons. You could be reading about that subject in preparation for giving positive support.

Google: www.marthabethlewis She is a leading piano educator with a doctorate in pedagogy and her web site has much of interest to piano student parents, the students, and other piano teachers.

Little steps lead to bigger steps and one day you will find yourself in the best situation you could create within the parameters that you have listed for doing it. I think you will be glad that you did more preparation and thinking in depth about the choices you have open to you.

I think the "book" itself is the least of your concerns. I, myself, have developed my own method "Piano Power" which I use in my studio. It is not on the market but it carefully develops young musicians from the beginning lessons based on the students learning styles, his intelligences, his physical capacity, his maturity (emotional-behavioral), his personality, his preferances.

So many things contribute to the profile of a child ready for piano lessons. I think there is a time more appropriate than others. For instance, logic and relationships, correlations, comparisons, spatial relationships, don't really kick into being until about age 9. Much better than when kids of newly 6 years old are struggling to read the words on the page. The young ones ask "Where do I start?" because they can't find the starting place on the music. Then they get lost following the melody moving from right hand to left hand on the page. They get confused about the up and down of music on the staff and how it translates to the keyboard. Those who have read well for a while can easily do these things because their eyes have learned to focus and follow the written word in straight lines moving from left to right.

I didn't mean to get this lengthy - but I did want to address: 1) The fact that there is such a thing as a readiness profile,
2) Reading the music page is easier for a child who has been schooled for a few years,
3) There are other significant music activities available to you,
4) Music education is a specialized process and needs to be structured in many relevant ways if we want success. The "layman" does not know about these hidden requirement and the method books show only the materials used, they do not assist you with the process, the behind the scenes pedagogy, or a working syllabus. What you see is what you get in a method. Not enough.

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