Hi, my Brodmann BG187 was delivered in end-Feb, and I hope it isn't too late to say "I've not forgotten" you'll, and you're help in answering my queries!

The BG187 sounds great in the apartment, not to overwhelming, (just about the same volume as U1, although the sound spreads much further). It's deep, warm when soft, "mid-range-kind-of" floating sound at mf, and "round-and-loud" sound at ff level.



Here's some of my recordings: [/b]
Lid-props down, only music desk open:
Beethoven Piano Sonata No. 8 (”Pathetique”) in C minor II. Adagio Cantabile (A-flat Major) (After first tuning)

Lid-props up, fully open:
Beethoven Piano Sonata No. 8 (”Pathetique”) in C minor II. Adagio Cantabile (A-flat Major)

Scarlatti Piano Sonata K. 208 in A Major

Old posts: [/b]
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/20536.html#000013 http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/20536.html#000013

Also, I would like to ask some questions regarding the underside of the Brodmann?

Picture of Underside not painted
I'm a confused, is it normal for the underside not to be painted, the beams, rims, etc, as the rim, beams and others don't seemed to be finished as most pianos pictures I find?

Also, on close examination, I find some markings underneath the soundboard,
Picture 1 Markings on soundboard underneath
Picture 2 Close-up
Btw, the digital camera doesn't have micro-mode.
They resemble tiny cracks...

The last is when the lid is closed, the keys where it's facing parallel to the player is still exposed.
Lid does not fully close

The dealer says everything is fine, not a problem.

Please help clarify... Thanks.

Young L.

Congratulations with your new Brodmann; very nice piano - enjoy!

As to your concerns:

* the underside looks normal to me (i.e. beams not painted black)
* markings on soundboard underneath: don't know - strange; on the pictures it is as if some paper coating is on it that is not well wrapped out
* the lid not closing completely is not normal

The recordings:

* very warm tone on the Beethoven; particularly like the sound when fully open
* Scarlatti: warm and very open sound at the same time

schwammerl.

I think both issues show a lack of attention to detail, but neither would significantly affect performance.

You wouldn't find such things in a Yamaha/Kawai or any "better" piano, however they all cost more.

My personal opinion....it is worth the trade-off if the Brodmann is in your budget and the others are to much.

I would also suggest some voicing. The 6'1" Broadman grand should sound considerably better than a U1!

Wish I could play that well, but the recordings don't show the piano at its best. Not sure if it's the mikes, their placement, or compression.

Re getting the best from your lovely piano, it's tuning, regulation, then voicing. When budget permits, you might want your own tech to do a full prep, including string leveling and rendering.

This is completely false, obviously self serving information.

It simply shows that Brodman is not only on the way up but becoming a serious competitor against many other pianos out there.

From our own experience with many professional pianists and venues by now, Brodmann grands today are certainly as good or superior to most Japanese pianos on the market.

It's quickly becoming the 'piano of choice' for some of the best young pianists here in our Vancouver B.C. area.

To judge a piano not properly set up is like judging any other prematurely and in great haste, this including such makes as even Steinway.

After proper work is expertly completed, Brodmann grands are by far the best pianos today anywhere near their price class - they are starting to *steal* deals even from our higher end pianos...

The competition knows all of this full well and understandibly resents loosing deals to Brodmann on a seemingly ever increasing basis.

Congratulations to a great piano - now get a top tech to set up your piano properly!

Norbert

I maintain that irregularities in boards chosen to go into a soundboard (which is what I think I see in the pictures) and lids that fit poorly are not often found in Yamaha and Kawai, or in "better" pianos.

I see nothing false or self-serving.

There's Norbert going at it again. If I don't know better, I would say Norbert has stocks in Hailun and Brodman

A car analogy would be Brodman = Kia while yamaha and Kawai = honda and toyota ?

Fair ?

and I don't see any self-serving in Steve's post but I did see Norbert very fast to defend Brodman as usual.

Young L.

Gratz on your 187. It's certainly a lot of piano for the price. I myself did play the 187 a lot while shopping but ended up not choosing it for several personal reasons. I'll hold my judgement for now and wait and see in 10 years.
In the mean time, please keep us posted with honest info on your Brodman so we all could learn about this brand. We'll really appreciate it.

Enjoy your piano!

As a finish carpenter taking a good look at the close up of the "marking" on the bottom of the soundboard I believe that it is but the grain of that particular piece of wood. If that actually makes any difference in the sound of the piano I would not have a clue. I took a good look at the bottom of my Yamaha soundboard; Very clear and close grained wood. No odd figuring of the soundboard wood present. That said, I really do not know a dern thing about soundboards.You have a beautiful piano!

agree with Fog, your recording did not do the 187's sound justice. It should sound much more powerful and fuller. I still remember I kept going back and forth between the 187 and an RX2

Young L, congratulations on your new piano. I enjoyed listening to your recordings. I think you made a great choice. I had never heard of Brodmann until I visited San Diego a few months ago. The PianoSD store there let me use one for a practice piano the week I was there, and also for a concert I did at the end of the week. It was one of the nicest sounding pianos in the store and I liked the action also. I think they are one of the best values in new pianos at this time. It would be good for you to get a good tech go over the piano to make it sound and feel just like you want it to. Keep us posted. Larry

Hi Young L.,

Beautiful piano, beautiful tone and beautiful playing!

Rickster

Hello Young L

Thanks for sharing your picture and playing. I think you play very well.

I too have a Brodmann BG187 and am very happy with it (8 months now)

Wish you much joy with your new piano.

Almost.

I choose and pick my pianos as I see fit - no big mama or papa company blowing down my neck preventing me from getting 'overly hot' competition on the floor.....

Norbert

Norbert, have you had anyone walk into your store, play a Brodmann and an Estonia, and then remark that the Brodmann was *superior* to the Brodmann? Of course, that's a ridiculous question, but do you really think that Brodmann is superior to Kawai RX and Yahama (both at Tier 3A)? OK, superior value maybe, but superior product?

Obviously you have decided that between Tiers 2A (Estonia) and 4C (Hailun), only Brodmann (at Tier 3C) is worthy. Have you ever thought that your lineup is rather sparse in that range? Or perhaps you think that the other brands in that range are not worth the price (or as a dealer, worth the profit)?

Not at all.

Brodmann will be a higher rated piano yet, no question in my mind.

Don't forget, Mr. Fine is extremely conservative in rating pianos, especially 'new' ones on the market.

The pianos which are rising in his Annual Supplement - most by the way, are *not* - are always a bit 'underrated' at the time,it seems.

This also applies to Brodmann, it happens to be right now "only" in tier group 3 but has all the potential and makings of a piano rated even higher.

In my mind I'm asking why should customers pay more for something that's most likely not as good, let alone 'better' - just because it's been around longer and hapens to be one or two notches above in ratings at a particular time?

Let's not forget it took the Japanese decades[/b] to make it to tier group 3A - not much has been happening since.....

I once argued the exact same point years ago when Estonia was still in tier 4C - another hugely underrated piano at that time.

Time appears to be on the side of those who can spot these things.

*Ahead of time* - of course.....

Norbert

I am not a technician or an expert on the different makes of pianos. All I can go on is how the piano sounds. Your Brodmann has a wonderful rich tone in the bass, and great clarity in the treble. That really showed up when you played the Scarlatti. Enjoy your beautiful Brodmann.

Your playing of the Beethoven, and the Scarlatti was most enjoyable. The full rich tone really came through with the lid up. Gaby Tu

Thanks for posting. I think your piano looks great and sounds wonderful. I really enjoyed listening to your recordings. Nice playing, too.

My,My, Norbert,

I am surprised at how quickly your fans turned on you. I am with you on this one. I have handled or worked with both of the other brands mentioned on this forum. And yes, I have seen errors, sometimes stupid errors, on the part of the manufacturer. Remember, I worked for a manufacturer for several years and I saw plenty of oversights.

For Egger to sell me on having this line took some time and serious considertion on my part. Now that I have them, I am more impressed than ever, to the point I am going to expand the line in my store.

It would appear that we are in the majority that holds this opinion and obviously not based on an overated idea of a brand name on the front, but, simple performance ability and value of the dollar we are asking our customer to trust us with.

Ric Overton
ric@pianosd.com
PianoSD.com-San Diego

Wonderful playing. Your piano sounds great. I tried a Brodmann grand when I was piano shopping. I was impressed by the touch and tone, especially for the price, but I hadn't heard much about Brodmann at the time, and didn't really trust myself or the dealer enough to seriously consider it.

Young,

If you want the dealer to be more responsive, I think you should post the problem on the Adult Beginner in Singapore thread.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/15626/52.html#001283

Many of the posters there are very well-connected to the piano retail scene in Singapore. Some of the problems you mention (especially the fallboard not closing correctly) should be remedied by the dealer.

This is completely true.

We also have to regularly come out "from behind" because the big names and people associated or familiar with them are in no mood to give up even one inch of market share.

This is evident by all those other competitors who keep speaking here [or in their own stores...] in rather generic terms using "Chinese pianos" equating them summarily to lower grade 'beginner pianos' and so on.

Thankfully the most important people in this group besides Mr. Fine himself - don't.

Brodmann's many new customers.

Norbert

Umm, I think you guys meant "minority" when you say "It would appear that we are in the majority that holds this opinion".

So here we have two strong endorsments from two store owners who just happen to sell the Broddman piano line, but we still have an opening poster who has some questions about his piano that have not been answered by either of the two dealers who represent the line.
So - what about the wood selection for the soundboards and what about the fallboard not closing properly (fit and finish issues as Steve said)?
Norbert?
Mr. Overton?

Young L. Are you happy with the Broddman? Do you like your new piano?
I thought your recordings were quite lovely and I hope that you get the kinks worked out of your piano.

My best guess would be that Young L. should contact the dealer that he purchased it from and have them correct the issues or replace it. I am not able to say exactly what the problems might be but, if a dealer was aware of them I am sure that they would correct it. It would appear to me in both cases that perhaps we are looking at some type of scratching on the soundboard, and a misalignment on the fall board. However, I am not also insinutaing that it didn't come from the MFG. that way. In either case Young L. should have the piano looked at.

In the event that you are trying to imply that there is a piano line of any kind out there that NEVER has a situation that they ship a product that is not perfect, you would be mistaken. Also, you might note that there have been few complaints about Brodmann posted on this forum.

Ric Overton
ric@pianosd.com
PianoSD.com-San Diego

This could be a simple problem with the hinches or how the piano fallboard is anchered right at this moment.

If the piano was not properly unpacked, something could have slipped or moved.

The inner setting of the hinches allow for some adjustment, so this could be a very minor thing.

You need to call your dealer and have this looked at immediately.

Let him pay my ticket - I'll fix it for you...

Norbert

Not trying to imply one thing thing Ric.
I've no complaint about Brodmann either - I've never seen one other than via the links on a good number of Norberts posts.

Mike

OK, Norbert, I'm going to put you on the spot - where should the *currently* produced Brodmann be rated? Obviously, you are saying that 3C is not high enough.

And I'm not talking about future Brodmanns (as they may be made to better specs), but the ones produced now that are sitting in your showroom. I think that your Estonia example does not properly take into account that brands can upgrade (e.g., certainly the Estonia of 2008 is better than that of 1998.)

Swamp:

I'm not 'put on the spot' - I'll answer gladly:

The way we notice that something special is going on is not so much because of 'rating' - sure it's nice to be recognized in Larry Fine's book -
but *who* the people actually are that choose Brodmanns.

I can tell you that it is not so much the moms and pops buying their very first piano - but serious musicians, several of whom have been replacing their "higher rated" own used piano.

In fact,one of the most famous teachers here in Canada, Mr.Edward Parker from Burnaby,B.C. has recently replaced his 'not-too-old' Steinway B with a new 7' Brodmann 212.

Unbelievable - but true...

2 of Mr. Parker's most advanced students, both top finalists of the Kiwanis Piano Festival, have chosen a Brodmann 187 - not a small thing considering these folks definitely had the means to buy a much more expensive piano.

The list goes on with a number of performing venues, churches, town halls and community centres all making similiar choices.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/20127.html

Coincidence?

Again, it was almost in each case experienced, real *musicians* making their choice, most of whom had looked at all kinds of other options and definitely had the money to spend on a piano from a higher tier group.

But - they *didn't*.

Which tier group Brodmann really belongs to?

Someone please tell me....

Norbert

OK - I will.

Brodmann 187 probably belongs in Group 3A. I think that, realistically, Group 2C would be stretching it a bit.