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#1265071 - 09/09/09 07:08 AM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: eweiss]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: eweiss
I have to say that in the end, it's all inane. You're teaching children to play the creations of other people. And here comes the inane part ... you're teaching them how to play it right.

Where's the creativity? Where's the joy? Oh yeah ... it comes from working hard and getting it "right."

Is it any wonder kids hate piano lessons? For the most part, they are forced by stupid but well meaning parents because they believe piano lessons will make them smarter - another belief that's not true.

I have nothing against children who want to learn how to play classical music. Although they are few and far between. My problem lies with parents who push it because they think it's somehow required to improve a child's life.

Substitute the accordion for piano and you'll see what I mean.


eweiss,

You've said the same thing enough by this point, that I believe we all get it.

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#1265101 - 09/09/09 08:38 AM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: Phlebas]
Lollipop Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Georgia
There are lots of things in Eweiss's post I'd like to respond to - like stupid parents. But for now, I'll stick with the concept of learning to read a dead white guy's music.

Reading a piece of music (classical or otherwise) is a lot like reading a book. I love to read, and am especially fond of fiction. Other people like other genres; so be it. I don't believe that reading what someone else has written takes away my creativity. In fact, I find just the opposite. When I hear what someone else has to say, and how they say it, and how it makes me feel, then I am able to take that and use it when I have something I want to say in writing.

I wouldn't dream of taking a child who is learning to read and telling them that reading other people's stuff is going to squash their creativity. In fact, well after I was a good reader, my teachers were foisting things like Shakespeare and Hawthorne on me. Rather than destroy my ability to create, I believe it helped.

We've all had teachers who spent so much time on diagramming sentences that they took all the joy out of reading and writing. When I am teaching my piano students, we talk not only about which notes and rhythms are right - we talk about what the composer might have wanted to say, and how he said it.

When I am introducing the concept of "artistry" (in PA books), we talk about movie music. We talk about how we know when the scary parts are coming, or when the prince is going to kiss the princess. We talk about how different sounds make us feel happy or sad.

I am very conscious of the fact that lots of rules and structure might conflict with creativity. To this end, I encourage kids to experiment with keyboard sounds, even to write their own music. There is a lot to be learned from "playing." But I also ask them to do this as dessert after they've practiced their assigned lesson.

I had an English teacher once who explained that e. e. cummings was allowed to use lower case improperly only AFTER he understood the rules of language, and since we weren't there yet, we had to capitalize. Since I only teach beginners, my students are still learning the rules. I expect them to play pieces as the composer intended. I tell them that if they have something different to say, they need to write their own. Some of my students take me up on it.
_________________________
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#1265322 - 09/09/09 01:42 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: Phlebas]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Phlebas
eweiss,

You've said the same thing enough by this point, that I believe we all get it.

Interesting way to tell someone to shut up. Nice.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1265325 - 09/09/09 01:43 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: jnod]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5459
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: jnod
eweiss - thanks for your valuable post - from now on my son will learn nothing but tone clusters, played on the accordian. I may pull him out of third grade as it is clearly wasted time learning the ideas of others. Especially others who are dead.

Priceless!
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1265328 - 09/09/09 01:51 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: jnod]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: jnod
eweiss - thanks for your valuable post - from now on my son will learn nothing but tone clusters, played on the accordian. I may pull him out of third grade as it is clearly wasted time learning the ideas of others. Especially others who are dead.

You're welcome jnod. At least by playing tone clusters, your son will experience first hand the joy of creating something instead of recreating dead music. As far as pulling him out of school, that might not be a bad idea either as most schools won't teach your child the most important skill of all - how to think for yourself.
_________________________
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#1265358 - 09/09/09 02:49 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: eweiss]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: eweiss
most schools won't teach your child the most important skill of all - how to think for yourself.


advantage eweiss

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#1265374 - 09/09/09 03:13 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: theJourney]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: eweiss
most schools won't teach your child the most important skill of all - how to think for yourself.


advantage eweiss
Yeh, but they do babysit.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
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#1265378 - 09/09/09 03:18 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: theJourney]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5459
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: eweiss
most schools won't teach your child the most important skill of all - how to think for yourself.

advantage eweiss


theJourney:

You have a very skewed view of American public education. From what I have observed (over 20 public schools and over 100 master teachers), there is a lot of excellent teaching going on. The focus in these classrooms is critical thinking. The fact-based education system has given way to teaching thinking and problem-solving skills.

I wish people will stop blaming teachers for all the problems.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1265410 - 09/09/09 04:16 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: AZNpiano]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: eweiss
most schools won't teach your child the most important skill of all - how to think for yourself.

advantage eweiss


theJourney:

You have a very skewed view of American public education. From what I have observed (over 20 public schools and over 100 master teachers), there is a lot of excellent teaching going on. The focus in these classrooms is critical thinking. The fact-based education system has given way to teaching thinking and problem-solving skills.

I wish people will stop blaming teachers for all the problems.


Doctors do not take all the blame for the dysfunctional health care system just as teachers do not take all the blame for the sub-performing educational system. It is sub-performing just the same...

Quote:

Studies have shown that our students abilities in math and science begin on level with students in other countries, but then progressively decrease as they make their way through our educational system. By the end of high school, United States students rank among the lowest in the industrialized world in math and science achievement. We in introductory college science education inherit these students and have to deal with their deficiencies in scientific and critical thinking.
...
In retrospect, it seems obvious that when the information content of a discipline increases, it becomes even more vital to spend time, not learning more information, but learning methods to acquire, understand, and evaluate this information and the great amount of new information that is not known now but will surely follow. Frankly, it is counterproductive to simply memorize and learn more new and isolated facts when future facts may eventually displace these. Thus, our science education policy has been completely backward, teaching more science facts and less scientific method rather than the converse.

http://www.freeinquiry.com/critical-thinking.html

Quote:


Contemporary American schooling contains a severe miscalculation of what constitutes an effective product. This breach lies within the difference of automation versus education. The dictionary definition of education reads:

1.the act or process of imparting or acquiring general knowledge, developing the powers of reasoning and judgment, and generally of preparing oneself or others intellectually for mature life.


Now compared to that of critical thinking:

The mental process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and evaluating information to reach an answer or conclusion.


Fundamentally, education is a guide towards the skill of critical thinking. And, as of today, we have forgotten the fundamentals of education and thinking. How does this lack of education effect our society? This answer is found in the intended results of teaching critical thinking, which follows a four point cycle:

1. Gathering information; from several sources and paying special homage to evading bias.
2. Evaluating and reflecting; attaching and assessing the weight of different evidence.
3. Conceiving; indifference and tolerance are divided by pronouncement.
4. Dissemination; offering ideas for critique and synthesis.

The effects of this education help form thought founded on curiosity, skepticism, analysis and openness. From this point, human achievement is only limited by human knowledge. It is a process of how to think, rather than what to think. Obversely, the absence of critical thinking produces opportunity for indoctrination. And from here, humanity is left to the spectacle of its own malice. Society is robbed of achieving the great heights of which consciousness allow. For light is not the absence of darkness, but the overcoming of it. However, critical thinking does not play a prominent role in America's public school system. It rather centralizes on memorization, reiteration, and adherence to strict scheduling. These are the qualities of machines; to be defined by these standards requires the expulsion of humanity.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=219x6788


Edited by theJourney (09/09/09 04:18 PM)

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#1265421 - 09/09/09 04:44 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: theJourney]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
Excellent post, theJourney!

I completely agree with the definitions of education and critical thinking. This is a very valuable document for all people in education, but very much so as it completely applies to the teaching of piano.

Critical thinking skills are what I apply to my teaching from the beginning and throughout our associations. The students discover themselves as musicians based on the instruction guiding them to conclusions in thinking and in doing. The test of this is that they either can do what has been the subject matter or they cannot.

Education and critical thinking are being absolved from the equation of what we aspire to do with our students by a vocal group of people who do not have the experiences in music that many of us have received - we are in different spots.

The ones who see it as fun and enjoyment have lost the perspective that it is first serious thinking skills and bodily physical coordination control coming from the brain.

The fun enjoyment is not of the first issue it is a benefit, a reward, a complement to the psyche for doing well in the endeavor of learning and acquiring skills in thinking and doing.

It is complexity at it's most achieving.

We forget that playing even one note well is a study in many things. You don't just reach out and hit a note on the keyboard if you are an informed and intelligent musician. Add more notes to the equation and the pace and accountability of it is endless.

Piano playing requires ambition, a huge mind set for discipline and accountability, and a spiritual being willing to bring their music making to life from their innermost depths.

This is the place from which I teach. I really should put the Plato quote back into my signature as it has been my guiding light throughout most of my life. Music has been with us since the beginning with universal vibratory communication linking humans with the universe. We need to keep this in mind, I think.

Betty Patnude

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#1265437 - 09/09/09 05:41 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: Betty Patnude]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Betty Patnude
The students discover themselves as musicians based on the instruction guiding them to conclusions in thinking and in doing. The test of this is that they either can do what has been the subject matter or they cannot.

This isn't what I would call "discovering oneself as a musician." I'd call it monkey see, monkey do. If musicianship means playing something verbatim from sheet music, then what's the point? Turning out carbon copy students who can touch type the right notes at the right time? Wow. Now that's what I call a real musician.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1265441 - 09/09/09 05:53 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: eweiss]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10356
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
eweiss,

You've said the same thing enough by this point, that I believe we all get it.

.
.
.

Oh, wait, Phlebas already said that!


I've recently listened to at least six different versions of Chopin's etude in F minor (10/9). My limited intelligence suggests to me that the six different monke... , ah, artists, who played it brought very different ideas to the table.

Your continued hammering away at the futility of playing other people's written music is, well, beginning to go into the 'ignore' box. A repeated assertion lacking any sympathy for other peoples' POV begins to grate. It doesn't lead to converts either.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1265453 - 09/09/09 06:30 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: Piano*Dad]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
eweiss,I've recently listened to at least six different versions of Chopin's etude in F minor (10/9). My limited intelligence suggests to me that the six different monke... , ah, artists, who played it brought very different ideas to the table.

Your continued hammering away at the futility of playing other people's written music is, well, beginning to go into the 'ignore' box. A repeated assertion lacking any sympathy for other peoples' POV begins to grate. It doesn't lead to converts either.

I didn't say it was futile. To each his own. And I have just as much right to express my opinion as do other teachers here. As far as your statment about "six different artists" guess what? They aren't artists. An artist creates something original. A concert pianist recreates an original work and puts his slight interpretive spin on it. Wow. That's really artistic isn't it?

And by the way, I'm not looking for converts. I know my opinion isn't the most popular here. But my "truth" is mine to express. You don't have to like it.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1265463 - 09/09/09 06:52 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: eweiss]
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1789
Loc: Central TX
Originally Posted By: eweiss
An artist creates something original.


So since the following Rembrandt is simply a recreation of something that exists, do you not consider this art as well? Just curious where you draw the line. Are we just merely arguing terms, an "artist" vs a "performer" when referring to pianists? Is there enough interpretation in performance to transcend simple performance and elevate it to art as some might argue that even though Rembrandt is acting as a human camera that the result is art?


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#1265472 - 09/09/09 07:09 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: bitWrangler]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Hi Bitwrangler,

Well, if Rembrandt painted this, if it came from his brush, it's his art. Seems simple enough but some people refuse to accept simple truths.

Didn't we have this discussion before? A kid fingerpainting is creating art. A writer freewriting is creating art. A pianist improvising is creating art. If it's original and from the indiviual it is art.

Now, whether it's "good" or not is an entirely different subject. Creating and recreating are two different things. Imagine a painter copying the pretty picture you posted here. Now imagine an art teacher trying to illustrate to a student the correct way to paint that same picture. This is the same thing as a piano teacher teaching students how to play Beethoven.

Sorry if that's insulting, but it seems pretty obvious that this is exactly what's being done. Which is why I have such a strong reaction to traditional piano teaching.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1265473 - 09/09/09 07:09 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: bitWrangler]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10356
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Quote:
I didn't say it was futile. To each his own.


Thanks!

Quote:
And I have just as much right to express my opinion as do other teachers here.


No doubt!

Quote:
As far as your statment about "six different artists" guess what? They aren't artists. An artist creates something original. A concert pianist recreates an original work and puts his slight interpretive spin on it. Wow. That's really artistic isn't it?


your usual snarky dismissal of what you devalue.

Quote:
And by the way, I'm not looking for converts. I know my opinion isn't the most popular here. But my "truth" is mine to express. You don't have to like it.


Why engage here if you are not interested in sharing, learning, and perhaps persuading? Sharing tends to work better when alternative opinions are treated with a modicum of respect. Persuasion seems out of the question.

Ah, entertainment at fireworks! That's the ticket.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1265477 - 09/09/09 07:18 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: Piano*Dad]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Interesting. When someone doesn't like what you have to say they call it "snarky." Pianodad, it seems you are the one with the attitude.

Don't like what I have to say? Fine. Click away. I will continue to express my thoughts regardless of your approval.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1265479 - 09/09/09 07:19 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: eweiss]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5921
Loc: Down Under
What a pity, then, eweiss, if someone truly creative (in your terms) were to compose a piece for orchestra. He would then be condemning all those orchestral players to a lesser existence of mere recreation in order to bring his creation to life. I don't know how he would live with himself. smile
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1265480 - 09/09/09 07:21 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: currawong]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: currawong
What a pity, then, eweiss, if someone truly creative (in your terms) were to compose a piece for orchestra. He would then be condemning all those orchestral players to a lesser existence of mere recreation in order to bring his creation to life. I don't know how he would live with himself. smile

You're right.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1265481 - 09/09/09 07:24 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: eweiss]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5921
Loc: Down Under
So he should just stick to improvising new-agey music on the piano. So much for giving creativity full rein...
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1265489 - 09/09/09 07:34 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: currawong]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: currawong
So he should just stick to improvising new-agey music on the piano. So much for giving creativity full rein...

I don't get why this topic is so hard to understand. It doesn't matter WHAT is created. The idea of art is it's original. That's a revolutionary concept isn't it? New Age, jazz, classcial ... what does it matter?
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1265496 - 09/09/09 07:48 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: eweiss]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5921
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: eweiss
I don't get why this topic is so hard to understand. It doesn't matter WHAT is created. The idea of art is it's original. That's a revolutionary concept isn't it? New Age, jazz, classcial ... what does it matter?
As long as it's only for one performer - that's the point I was making. If you want to create original music for more than yourself to play, you've got a problem, haven't you.

It's not the kind of music we're talking about which creates the disagreement here. Our difference lies in this: I can see the value in what you do, but apparently you can't see the value in what I do.

And by the way, I can improvise, I encourage my students to improvise, and I compose. So when I'm performing one of my pieces (previously written down) am I being creative or am I just a typewriter?
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1265510 - 09/09/09 08:09 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: currawong]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10356
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Interesting. When someone doesn't like what you have to say they call it "snarky." Pianodad, it seems you are the one with the attitude.


ah, welcome to middle school logic.

Originally Posted By: eweiss
Well, if Rembrandt painted this, if it came from his brush, it's his art. Seems simple enough but some people refuse to accept simple truths.


I just don't understand how you can miss that the second sentence is anything but snarky. You don't have a conversation. You aggressively devalue what anyone else says. Why?

Sorry, but bitWrangler has a point. Art is often the world of creating within a box. For the classical musician, the box often is the written piece. For the composer, the box is the form .... sonata, for instance. For the painter, the box is the visual world that is being recreated by their use of learned techniques.

We may think that the composer has a greater degree of originality and spark than the 'mere' musician who recreates the composer's efforts. We may think that the visual artist who breaks the bonds of the former generation's boundaries is gifted in comparison to his or her contemporaries (or not, depending on our tastes). But the desire to squash or devalue what others do is really off putting, at least to me. The skills of the concert classical pianist are worth celebrating, yet it seems you treat them with sarcasm and condescension (as unoriginal and unworthy of much respect).
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1265513 - 09/09/09 08:13 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: currawong]
jnod Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/09
Posts: 794
Loc: Toronto
When I was in university (1980s) I spent a lot of my spare time going to see experimental films - this was at the Innis College Film Society at the University of Toronto - perhaps there's someone else out there who remembers that scene. Michael Snow, Stan Brakhage (who I do believe was a genius - unwatchable for the most part if you're me, but definitely an artist) and the like. I had a bunch of very intelligent friends who I really wanted to impress, including in particular a girl naturally enough given that I was 22.

I recall watching a 4 hour film one evening - I don’t remember who directed it - that consisted of a very lengthy series of blurry, unfocused images moving around rhythmically. It was hypnotic at times but ultimately, it was extremely tedious and try as I might I really struggled to see anything worthwhile in it at all. At one point the visual field, almost miraculously, came into focus on the wall of a tenement building, with the sun reflecting strongly off of a window. The ability to actually focus on something for the first time in hours was positively elating and an incredible relief. Then, an instant later, the focus was lost and it was back to rhythmic smudges of pure light. I spent a lot of evenings watching these films.

My favourite part of those evenings was that, during the lead up to many of the showings, the organizers played a recording of one or more of the Bach solo cello partitas, usually from the Yoyo Ma recording (though I prefer the Pablo Casals personally). There was a really interesting counterpoint between the very precise interpretation of what I think is the greatest music ever written, and these strange films that challenged all assumptions about art and esthetics.
_________________________
Justin
-------
Bach English Suite #5
Scarlatti Sonata K141 . L422
Mozart Sonata K333
Schubert Impromptu opus 90 D899
Schubert Moment Musicaux opus 94 D780

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#1265518 - 09/09/09 08:19 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: Piano*Dad]
birchy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Vancouver
Artists acknowledge their forbearers (Boccacio > Dante, Bob Dylan > Pete Seeger, the list is endless...)

Only dilettantes think their all their poo is new, and that is what makes them so special...

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#1265519 - 09/09/09 08:22 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: birchy]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: birchy
Artists acknowledge their forbearers (Boccacio > Dante, Bob Dylan > Pete Seeger, the list is endless...)

Only dilettantes think their all their poo is new, and that is what makes them so special...

No kidding.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1265523 - 09/09/09 08:24 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: currawong]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: eweiss
I don't get why this topic is so hard to understand. It doesn't matter WHAT is created. The idea of art is it's original. That's a revolutionary concept isn't it? New Age, jazz, classcial ... what does it matter?
As long as it's only for one performer - that's the point I was making. If you want to create original music for more than yourself to play, you've got a problem, haven't you.

It's not the kind of music we're talking about which creates the disagreement here. Our difference lies in this: I can see the value in what you do, but apparently you can't see the value in what I do.

And by the way, I can improvise, I encourage my students to improvise, and I compose. So when I'm performing one of my pieces (previously written down) am I being creative or am I just a typewriter?


Currawong, I totally respect you. These are just my thoughts and opinions - contrary to what many hold here. I see the value in what you do as well! I just feel passionately about this particular topic.

I'm not trying to convert anyone. But as I read through many of the posts on this forum, I get irked from time to time. Just like many of you do when reading mine.
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#1265525 - 09/09/09 08:27 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: Piano*Dad]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
The skills of the concert classical pianist are worth celebrating, yet it seems you treat them with sarcasm and condescension (as unoriginal and unworthy of much respect).

They are worth celebrating. They also are unoriginal. Pretty snarky huh?
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#1265530 - 09/09/09 08:33 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: eweiss]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10356
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Yep, as unoriginal as 99.999% of whatever anyone else in this world is doing .... except, perhaps, for the tone clusters someone is banging out in order to be original.

I think your focus on 'originality' is getting definitional and semantic, and that is tedious.
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#1265570 - 09/09/09 10:09 PM Re: how to motivate my son to practice? [Re: eweiss]
Gary D. Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4783
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: eweiss

A concert pianist recreates an original work and puts his slight interpretive spin on it. Wow. That's really artistic isn't it?

I don't entirely disagree with all your points, but there are specific situations in which an interpreter has done far more than put a slight spin on something.

I do think this is mostly likely to happen shortly after something has been composed, and the amount of spin that is added is also greatly dependent on the perfomance ability of the composer, if he is alive, and the imagination of the performer.

For instance, Rachmaninov's "spin" on the music of people like Chopin was much greater than "slight". To play Devil's Advocate in your favor, I'd say the extreme orginality of his playing of other people's music stemmed from his own composer-mentality. And I would have considered him an artist, based on his playing of other people's music, if he had never composed anything.

In the same way, if you compose something, and someone else takes your music and does something original or inspiring in a way that makes you take a new look at your music, something that inspires you, then I think the line between interpretation and creativity becomes very blurred.
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