Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Yamaha CP4 Rebate
Yamaha CP4 Rebate
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
120 registered (Almaviva, Abby Pianoman, accordeur, Amir, Alux, 36251, 30 invisible), 1347 Guests and 7 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1261333 - 09/02/09 09:04 PM three vs. two
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12536
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I'm looking for a good piece to introduce three vs. two, preferably 8th note triplets against duple 8ths. The student is late intermediate/early advanced, currently working on Haydn's Sonata in C (No. 35 I believe), Song Without Words, and his first Bach Invention No. 8. I'm looking to get him into Chopin Nocturnes, but I want to give him some more preparation first. Any suggestions?
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



Top
(ad) Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1261347 - 09/02/09 09:20 PM Re: three vs. two [Re: Morodiene]
currawong Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 6025
Loc: Down Under
How about the Grieg Notturno op.54/4. The main tune in the first section is in duplets over the 3s, though some of the latter are tied.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#1261354 - 09/02/09 09:29 PM Re: three vs. two [Re: currawong]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10456
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
or Debussy's First Arabesque.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

Top
#1261358 - 09/02/09 09:37 PM Re: three vs. two [Re: Piano*Dad]
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
The A-flat major etude of Chopin's Trois Nouvelles Etudes. It's the second one in most editions, i.e., #26 of the entire set; in a few editions it's the third or #27.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

Top
#1261363 - 09/02/09 09:43 PM Re: three vs. two [Re: Piano*Dad]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12536
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I was thinking of the Grieg, actually, but I didn't think of the Debussy. It is great for 3 vs. 2, but I think that's a bit beyond him right now. He has an affinity for Classical music, but his reading isn't the greatest, and Debussy certainly requires good reading for that one. I plan on getting him into Debussy first by doing the Girl with the Flaxen Hair.

I'll keep the Grieg in mind though. Any other ideas?
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



Top
#1261365 - 09/02/09 09:46 PM Re: three vs. two [Re: sotto voce]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12536
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: sotto voce
The A-flat major etude of Chopin's Trois Nouvelles Etudes. It's the second one in most editions, i.e., #26 of the entire set; in a few editions it's the third or #27.

Steven

We must have been posting at the same time. I'm not familiar with that one, but I'll check it out. It looks very doable for him.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



Top
#1261376 - 09/02/09 10:10 PM Re: three vs. two [Re: currawong]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
Originally Posted By: currawong
How about the Grieg Notturno op.54/4. The main tune in the first section is in duplets over the 3s, though some of the latter are tied.


I wouldn't recommend that as a first experience. The 2 against 3 occurs within the right hand alone. Add to that the fact that your have various ties to complicate things and the fact that the chords are repeated (adding to the technical difficult, compared to simply walking from finger to finger), and it's really not an easy way to start. I'd definitely hope for a student to have experience in standard 2 against 3, before trying that. The ones in the Arabesque would be a much more straightforward introduction.


Edited by Nyiregyhazi (09/02/09 10:12 PM)
_________________________
http://pianoscience.blogspot.com/

Top
#1261408 - 09/02/09 11:00 PM Re: three vs. two [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
currawong Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 6025
Loc: Down Under
I hear you smile. The Grieg is slowish however, and you have time to do the 12&3 counting to position the second note of the duplet. The ties do complicate things a little, however.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#1261456 - 09/03/09 12:27 AM Re: three vs. two [Re: currawong]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7507
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
There are a couple of Kuhlau sonatinas which are about the same level as Beethoven Op 49, #2, which introduce 3:2. I have the Schirmer edition and will look for it tomorrow for opus numbers.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1261469 - 09/03/09 12:41 AM Re: three vs. two [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
currawong Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 6025
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Nyiregyhazi
I'd definitely hope for a student to have experience in standard 2 against 3, before trying that. The ones in the Arabesque would be a much more straightforward introduction.
Actually I'd expect a student to have had 2 against 3 experience before the arabesque as well. I'm a bit surprised that he can be described as "early advanced" without some experience of the Kuhlau variety in 2-3.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#1261549 - 09/03/09 04:11 AM Re: three vs. two [Re: currawong]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2919
Loc: UK.
I like to use scales for this as well. If you play LH2's against RH3's you cover 2 octaves in the left and 3 in the right. To do it the other way round you need to start 2 octaves apart. Kids really seem to like this!
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

Top
#1261557 - 09/03/09 04:39 AM Re: three vs. two [Re: currawong]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
The ties in the Grieg do make it confusing, but once they get it they have it. Also, it has the benefit of sounding more difficult than it is and being a crowd pleaser which is motivating for students.


Edited by theJourney (09/03/09 04:40 AM)

Top
#1261620 - 09/03/09 08:34 AM Re: three vs. two [Re: currawong]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12536
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: Nyiregyhazi
I'd definitely hope for a student to have experience in standard 2 against 3, before trying that. The ones in the Arabesque would be a much more straightforward introduction.
Actually I'd expect a student to have had 2 against 3 experience before the arabesque as well. I'm a bit surprised that he can be described as "early advanced" without some experience of the Kuhlau variety in 2-3.

Well, I did say late intermediate too, and these terms are very loosely translated to begin with. I think the Haydn sonata is deceptive, like I said, he's more able to play Classical music than other genres. Now that I will have more lesson time with him this semester I plan to get him up to speed in other periods. But I agree, the Arabesque would be too much for him at this point.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



Top
#1261674 - 09/03/09 10:10 AM Re: three vs. two [Re: Morodiene]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7507
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
I'm looking for a good piece to introduce three vs. two, preferably 8th note triplets against duple 8ths. The student is late intermediate/early advanced, currently working on Haydn's Sonata in C (No. 35 I believe), Song Without Words, and his first Bach Invention No. 8. I'm looking to get him into Chopin Nocturnes, but I want to give him some more preparation first. Any suggestions?


Try Kuhlau's Sonatina in G, Op 20, #2. As I said above, it's about the same difficulty as the Op 49, #2 of Beethoven. The Schirmer edition, edited by Jennifer Linn, is quite good. The collection also has Op 88, #3, which students like.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1261755 - 09/03/09 11:53 AM Re: three vs. two [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12536
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
John, thanks for pointing that one out to me! I do have that edition as well as the Alfred one edited by Allan Small. Since this student has been a bit Classical-heavy, though, I may opt for the Chopin Etude in A-flat, but that's a good one to keep in mind for future reference. smile
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



Top

Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
circle of 5ths coaster
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Hal Leonard Teacher VIP
Hal Leonard Teacher VIP Your Source for Piano Music
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Musicality of a piece
by piano_friend
Today at 07:44 PM
Petrof new grands - overpriced?
by Piano_Brazil
Today at 07:07 PM
Recommendations for Small Room Humidifier/De-Humidi
fier

by PNO40
Today at 06:03 PM
Where to purchase Kawai MP7?
by cfit
Today at 05:29 PM
Mountain Top Piano
by JohnSprung
Today at 05:05 PM
What's Hot!!
Trade Regrets: Gary Trafton - Piano Rep
--------------------
Historic Piano Documents
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
78,672 Registered Members
43 Forums
162,759 Topics
2,389,183 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission