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#1261333 - 09/02/09 09:04 PM three vs. two
Morodiene Offline
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I'm looking for a good piece to introduce three vs. two, preferably 8th note triplets against duple 8ths. The student is late intermediate/early advanced, currently working on Haydn's Sonata in C (No. 35 I believe), Song Without Words, and his first Bach Invention No. 8. I'm looking to get him into Chopin Nocturnes, but I want to give him some more preparation first. Any suggestions?
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#1261347 - 09/02/09 09:20 PM Re: three vs. two [Re: Morodiene]
currawong Offline
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How about the Grieg Notturno op.54/4. The main tune in the first section is in duplets over the 3s, though some of the latter are tied.
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#1261354 - 09/02/09 09:29 PM Re: three vs. two [Re: currawong]
Piano*Dad Offline
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or Debussy's First Arabesque.
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#1261358 - 09/02/09 09:37 PM Re: three vs. two [Re: Piano*Dad]
sotto voce Offline
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The A-flat major etude of Chopin's Trois Nouvelles Etudes. It's the second one in most editions, i.e., #26 of the entire set; in a few editions it's the third or #27.

Steven
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Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
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#1261363 - 09/02/09 09:43 PM Re: three vs. two [Re: Piano*Dad]
Morodiene Offline
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I was thinking of the Grieg, actually, but I didn't think of the Debussy. It is great for 3 vs. 2, but I think that's a bit beyond him right now. He has an affinity for Classical music, but his reading isn't the greatest, and Debussy certainly requires good reading for that one. I plan on getting him into Debussy first by doing the Girl with the Flaxen Hair.

I'll keep the Grieg in mind though. Any other ideas?
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#1261365 - 09/02/09 09:46 PM Re: three vs. two [Re: sotto voce]
Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted By: sotto voce
The A-flat major etude of Chopin's Trois Nouvelles Etudes. It's the second one in most editions, i.e., #26 of the entire set; in a few editions it's the third or #27.

Steven

We must have been posting at the same time. I'm not familiar with that one, but I'll check it out. It looks very doable for him.
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#1261376 - 09/02/09 10:10 PM Re: three vs. two [Re: currawong]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
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Registered: 07/24/09
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Originally Posted By: currawong
How about the Grieg Notturno op.54/4. The main tune in the first section is in duplets over the 3s, though some of the latter are tied.


I wouldn't recommend that as a first experience. The 2 against 3 occurs within the right hand alone. Add to that the fact that your have various ties to complicate things and the fact that the chords are repeated (adding to the technical difficult, compared to simply walking from finger to finger), and it's really not an easy way to start. I'd definitely hope for a student to have experience in standard 2 against 3, before trying that. The ones in the Arabesque would be a much more straightforward introduction.


Edited by Nyiregyhazi (09/02/09 10:12 PM)
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#1261408 - 09/02/09 11:00 PM Re: three vs. two [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
currawong Offline
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I hear you smile. The Grieg is slowish however, and you have time to do the 12&3 counting to position the second note of the duplet. The ties do complicate things a little, however.
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#1261456 - 09/03/09 12:27 AM Re: three vs. two [Re: currawong]
John v.d.Brook Offline
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There are a couple of Kuhlau sonatinas which are about the same level as Beethoven Op 49, #2, which introduce 3:2. I have the Schirmer edition and will look for it tomorrow for opus numbers.
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#1261469 - 09/03/09 12:41 AM Re: three vs. two [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
currawong Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nyiregyhazi
I'd definitely hope for a student to have experience in standard 2 against 3, before trying that. The ones in the Arabesque would be a much more straightforward introduction.
Actually I'd expect a student to have had 2 against 3 experience before the arabesque as well. I'm a bit surprised that he can be described as "early advanced" without some experience of the Kuhlau variety in 2-3.
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#1261549 - 09/03/09 04:11 AM Re: three vs. two [Re: currawong]
Chris H. Offline
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Registered: 10/14/05
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I like to use scales for this as well. If you play LH2's against RH3's you cover 2 octaves in the left and 3 in the right. To do it the other way round you need to start 2 octaves apart. Kids really seem to like this!
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#1261557 - 09/03/09 04:39 AM Re: three vs. two [Re: currawong]
theJourney Offline
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The ties in the Grieg do make it confusing, but once they get it they have it. Also, it has the benefit of sounding more difficult than it is and being a crowd pleaser which is motivating for students.


Edited by theJourney (09/03/09 04:40 AM)

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#1261620 - 09/03/09 08:34 AM Re: three vs. two [Re: currawong]
Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: Nyiregyhazi
I'd definitely hope for a student to have experience in standard 2 against 3, before trying that. The ones in the Arabesque would be a much more straightforward introduction.
Actually I'd expect a student to have had 2 against 3 experience before the arabesque as well. I'm a bit surprised that he can be described as "early advanced" without some experience of the Kuhlau variety in 2-3.

Well, I did say late intermediate too, and these terms are very loosely translated to begin with. I think the Haydn sonata is deceptive, like I said, he's more able to play Classical music than other genres. Now that I will have more lesson time with him this semester I plan to get him up to speed in other periods. But I agree, the Arabesque would be too much for him at this point.
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#1261674 - 09/03/09 10:10 AM Re: three vs. two [Re: Morodiene]
John v.d.Brook Offline
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Registered: 03/18/06
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Originally Posted By: Morodiene
I'm looking for a good piece to introduce three vs. two, preferably 8th note triplets against duple 8ths. The student is late intermediate/early advanced, currently working on Haydn's Sonata in C (No. 35 I believe), Song Without Words, and his first Bach Invention No. 8. I'm looking to get him into Chopin Nocturnes, but I want to give him some more preparation first. Any suggestions?


Try Kuhlau's Sonatina in G, Op 20, #2. As I said above, it's about the same difficulty as the Op 49, #2 of Beethoven. The Schirmer edition, edited by Jennifer Linn, is quite good. The collection also has Op 88, #3, which students like.
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#1261755 - 09/03/09 11:53 AM Re: three vs. two [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Morodiene Offline
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John, thanks for pointing that one out to me! I do have that edition as well as the Alfred one edited by Allan Small. Since this student has been a bit Classical-heavy, though, I may opt for the Chopin Etude in A-flat, but that's a good one to keep in mind for future reference. smile
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