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Great idea, take this child and enlist him in a plan to spite his own mother.
Smart.

Don't intentionally misconstrue my comments to mean that the teacher shouldn't keep the parent in the loop.

I understood what you meant, John. We do have to lighten up sometimes! Let's face it, 13 year old boys can be a rowdy, scruffy, bunch. We must appeal to who they are.
Betty and everyone who asked whether or not the mom is involved with lessons and plays piano herself:
Yes and Yes.
Mom took lessons years ago. I have not heard her play but she has a good supply of music and has classical training. She and I have spoken over the phone, emailed, and met in person many times. She is very involved with her children with regards to their lessons but has never sat in on one for her oldest son (the topic of this thread). Perhaps I should invite her to do that. But the thing is, her son is very contradictory with her. Anything she says he fights her on. And he LOVES to prove her wrong. Disrespectful, certainly, but also quite typical of some 13 year old boys.
I have explained my position to his mom many times, on the issues of practicing too fast (which she is an advocate of doing), spending more time on a piece to actually complete it, and how many pieces her son should be working on at one time. Many times she contradicts what I ask her son to do at his lessons, he comes back and tells me this, and I phone her to discuss. I think her son thrives on this type of controversy

Barb,

Do you remember that topic last week about oppositional disorders (ODD? Perhaps it runs in this family?

I don't think I could take the jabbing between the two of them when it comes into my vicinity. Just knowing it exists is problematic since you don't have the normal kind of support in families to count on. It would almost be better to have no comments from the parent. It seems to me to be one wicked long standing habit that probably influences many things they do in their family.

I personally would not want to have to work with it because I think it undermines the teacher perhaps more than it bothers the principles involved. We have enough going against us without such a big, potentially explosive at any time, on-going confrontation.

I have had to say a few times in my career to children or to the parents or both, "I'm sorry, but I don't allow that kind of behavior in my house nor in my studio. You can't speak rudely to each other while in my presence."

Another confrontation was when a 10 year old yelled at her mother because Mom forgot to bring the books that day, and I said pretty much the same thing, "You're mother is not responsible for your books, you are. You're old enough to be able to bring them yourself. Do not talk to your mother like that in my home or at studio events. You really need to learn to behave in my presence." I would still handle things like this in the same way.

It's such a pleasure to see people at their best! You can't pay me enough that I will tolerate rudeness and insults in my home by my clients. During my teaching years, I have had 5 kids, a husband, and for a year and a half, my mother in law living in my home. I represented not only myself but also my family members to the people who thought nothing of the turmoil they brought with them. I found that a little reality would prevent it from happening again -mo one left because of these confrontations - and no one tested me on it again either.

I don't know how teachers can put up with insolence and erratic and distructive behaviors during piano lessons. I think that things like that would be very stressful to the teacher long after the student had left.

Say what you want now, but there was nothing in your language in the post I responded to, to indicate that you intended to "keep the mother in the loop." But of course, you couldn't be wrong so I have to have "intentionally" misconstrued your comments.

WHy would you have to "game this very carefully?" as you put it. It was a terrible idea, now you've compounded it by trying to weasel out of it.

Pretty good job I'd say.

As kids move into adolescence, there comes a point where they begin to leave the things of their childhood behind and break away from their parents a bit. This is a natural and healthy part of growing up, but it's always a bit awkward.

Piano lessons are a part of childhood for these kids, and are often one of the things that gets left behind. There is a feeling that "yeah, I used to do piano lessons and play from those kiddie books (method books), but I'm SO OVER that..."

Teachers have to realize this and find ways of forging relationships with their adolescent students that is different than the relationships they had with the same kids when they were younger. Just as the kids grow up and mature, the teacher-student relationship has to mature as well. Teach and relate to a 14 year old the same way you teach and relate to an 7 year old, and that 14 year old is going to consign you to the closet with her old Dora the Explorer Lunchbox and jump rope.

I think John's comments are indicative of this changing relationship. And it is a bit of a conspiracy. The word "conspiracy" comes from the latin "con" (with) and "spirare" (breathe.) It literally means to "breathe with" another person. John is simply suggesting a shift in the relationship that puts the mother in a different role. Not out of the loop, but no longer a mandated proxy.

This is difficult for some parents, and it's something that teachers and coaches have to deal with throughout middle and high school. (And sometimes college - I'm constantly amazed at the number of parents who still think they're in control of a 20 year old's life. Such delusions!)

Kreisler, please, Do you really suppose poster had in mind the latin roots? Conspiracy means what it means today, in English. In 2009.

I know what I read. And I know what he meant, no matter how you want to spin it.



con⋅spir⋅a⋅cy  /kənˈspɪrəsi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuhn-spir-uh-see] Show IPA
Use conspiracy in a Sentence
See web results for conspiracy
See images of conspiracy
–noun, plural -cies. 1. the act of conspiring.
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4. Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.

Now, I'd leave out the words "evil" and "treacherous" etc. But the posters intent was clear.


Edit: By the way, if you folks think this is ok, that is to involve a kid in some sort of plan to manipulate his mother, then fine. We simply disagree.

I think it's unhealthy and unwise.

Geez, I was just contributing a few thoughts on adolescence and developmental psychology.

I didn't think the poster had Latin roots in mind, either. I just thought the etymology was kind of interesting.

And if you really think John's idea unhealthy and unwise, why not offer an alternative?

I'm even more amazed at the (smaller) number of parents who actually ARE still in control of a 20 year old's life!! Every time I get a phone call from a mom asking for an extension on a student's paper, or an override for the student into my class, my jaw drops open.

Sorry if I came on a bit strong, K. And I do find the etymology interesting, especially since I've had some Latin myself. But I'm not sure criticizing what to me is a self-evidently unwise idea requires that I come up with an alternative. I just don't know enough about the relationship the OP has with her student's mother and what if any ground rules have been established.

In the end, it's a business and the last thing one wants to do is antagonize parents, unless there's some important principle involved. (edit: of course it's up to the teacher to decide if this is an important enough principle to potentially lose a student over)..Were it my situation, I might use it as a learning opportunity and devise some sort of contract that clearly outlines what I see as my responsibilies and prerogatives as a teacher, and the responsibilities and prerogatives of my students and their parents. Clarity is important. I'd ask all present and future parents and students to sign it. That might at least give me some ammunition the next time.

All that said, I'd probably call the mother and try to explain my position in as pleasant a manner as possible. If I encountered any hostility or pushback, I'd let the matter drop. In the end, it's just one piece of music.