Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Are you a desperado?

Were you so desperate to play well that you unlearned all the poor teaching you received initially - even though it took years?

My early teachers I had weren't poor teachers, but insufficient teachers. In some cases, I was moved ahead before I actually mastered a concept and could execute it properly. Perhaps that's a necessary problem of impatient youth.

As a pianist I was blessed with a great teacher who was patient, kind, and really helped my technique, so I didn't have "unlearning" to do. But as a singer, 7 out of the 8 teachers I had were bad, many of them contradicting one another, trading off one bad idea for the next.

My last teacher was the one who really hit the nail on the head, and so when he taught me, it was like a huge light bulb went off, "Oh, *that* actually felt right!" My body knew what it should have been doing but it got confused by all the terrible suggestions from people who should have known better, and so when I finally was going in the right direction, it felt easier. I never went back to the old ways out of habit, because they never felt right to begin with. When you find something that is easier and more efficient and not painful, why would you ever go back?

But then, one may wonder why I stuck with it after 7 teachers and failures each time after "reworking" my voice yet again. There were definitely many times I tried giving up, but after trying that a few times I realized that I had to sing no matter how bad it was. I wanted it badly enough.

So, yes, I think the key to overcoming poor teaching is the desire to want it badly enough that you simply keep trying until you get it.

Yes!!!

It dawned on me when I was at University that in order to progress further I needed to rework my whole technique. My first piano teacher (right through to grade 8) was actually a guitarist!

Ah, a fellow
desperado! And when you find someone who has it on offer you just know, don't you ("Oh, *that* actually felt right!").

And another!

Not. Why do I have this awful vision of you in knickerbockers, hair slicked down with macasa - right out of Tom Sawyer?

I am definitely a better pianist today, despite much less time for practice, than I was when I was at my high school best. I most certainly don't blame bad teaching. Like John, I would say that my first teacher was insufficient, but the raw material he was working with (me) was equally insufficient or more so. My second teacher was fabulous. Her skills could have taken me way beyond what I ultimately achieved. The problems were in me, not her. My limited horizon was shaped by ingrained habits I could not easily break in the short time I worked with her.

Some, or most, young players really never master how to practice for maximum benefit. They don't learn the tricks that help them identify why particular passages are giving them difficulty, so they muscle through things and make bad habits permanent. They do this in piece after piece, until that style becomes practice to them. If there was a failing, it might be that teaching how to practice wasn't very systematic once I got into advanced literature.

A related problem may be that many, or most, students never really master the technique of relaxed playing. Controlling the body just seems downright difficult to lots of teens. Being told what to do just doesn't seem to translate smoothly into actually doing it. I wonder if teens just don't experiment around a lot so that trial and error eventually shows them what the teacher was getting at.

Both of these things only came to me as an adult working on my own. Adult insights, in my case, were simply deeper than what I was capable of putting out as a teen.

And there's the rub - it's what not to do!

I know wht knickerbockers are - though I've never had any, but I don't know what macasa is, and apparently, no one has bothered to post a definition or picture or description on the web. Please define.

As for your nightmares, perhaps it's something you ate!

Sorry, it's my spelling:


You can't have forgotten antimacassars:

Yeah, I remember antimacassars on chairs... long after no one would have been caught dead oiling their hair. Some traditions die hard.

Hey, is this a serious comment .... or a post padding!

Huh!? Learning the piano is mostly a case of learning what not to do.

No, no, all I was pointing out was that you were emphasizing the flip side of what I had already said. Whether a teacher tells you what TO do or what NOT to do, if you can't really feel what s(he) means, the instruction does you little good. It's hard to know what 'right' feels like if you haven't experienced it.

That's why you need to start correctly from day 1. That way it feels as you already do feel (more or less). Instrumental pedagogy is kinda about making something that feels pretty awkward feel natural without subsuming unwanted tension. i.e. accommodating tension not hiding it.

kbk, I apologise if your op question was intended solely for your fellow teachers, but I just had to jump in here..

Where does a 58 year old - desperate to make the most of his precious time - find that right teacher in Hamburg, Germany? I've 'tried' several and none of them - NONE OF THEM! - have 'it'! Moving to live next door to kbk, John Brook, Morodiene, Betty Patnude, Chris H. etc. is, unfortunately, not an option

Frustrated? ...you bet! I feel like 'Brendel' - my avatar dog - going round in circles and getting knowhere fast!

You can try: http://epta-europe.org/mapa/members8.html
It seems EPTA-Germany's web isn't working but give them a ring. It's no guarantee of a good teacher but you might get a list.

Thanks for the link, kbk.

I seem to have been going on about this since joining the PW forums in Feb 2007 but believe me, the teachers I've tried so far have all been disappointing - no structured learning strategy designed to match my needs, no mention of how best to practice, no tailored technique exercises. As you yourself mentioned, I'll know when - if! - I find the right teacher!

Like Cruiser, I am not a teacher, but felt the need to comment. This is exactly the problem I'm only now realizing I have. I'm 22, finishing university, and haven't taken a piano lesson in 2 years (having started lessons at the age of 7). Only now, reading literature on the subject and looking back, do I realize that I never knew how to practice properly. After my parents stopped monitoring my practice, I got by on a combination of sight reading, 1-2 hours of "muscling through" a week, and what I suppose is love of piano, since I did stick with it even through the rebellious adolescent years. I'm planning to resume regular daily practice (for the first time since I became a teenager!) now, and since the picture of a "practice session" no longer involves mindless drilling 'till I get it right, I can't be more excited to start again. I only wish my teacher had identified the problem back in highschool when I had much more time, and taught me how to practice. I would certainly be a better pianist for it now.

I had an excellent technical foundation from my early teachers, and they did a lot to impart to me their love of music. Proper "practicing technique", however, is equally important, especially at the higher levels where hard work is required, and it's so easy to become discouraged if it's not paying off. I'm very glad that the teachers on this forum are giving this aspect of piano instruction the attention it deserves. Your students are lucky to have teachers like you

On topic, I suppose the title applies to me, even though I don't consider myself to have had bad teaching. It's unlikely that I'll be able to take lessons again for some years, but after my 2-year break I realize I don't want to leave piano. It's one of my greatest joys, and if keeping it means learning to practice all over again by myself, I'm happy to do it.