Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#1264190 - 09/07/09 05:47 PM Re: Are you a desperado? [Re: keyboardklutz]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Originally Posted By: landorrano
If a musical instrument "feels pretty awkward" to you, you are going to transmit that mistrust to a student no matter what you say or try to demonstrate.
That's a very important point (I feel a thread coming on). The sign you are a good player is when you sense something as awkward but have no awkwardness interacting with it. It's a kinda out'a body thing. Poor players subsume the awkwardness as unnecessary tension and it disappears from their radar. In other words, never lose those initial awkward feelings - keep the feelings not the tension.


"You sense something as awkward but have no awkwardness interacting with it"? Well that was certainly an awkward sentence and I'm probably going to have an extremely awkward time in trying to interact with it. I'm really struggling to determine any faintly practical point, beneath all those vague, empty words.

"Poor players subsume the awkwardness as unnecessary tension"? So awkwardness is 'subsumed' into unnecessary tensions? Really? Unnecessary tensions don't CAUSE even greater awkwardness? Feelings of awakwardness just 'disappear' beneath the surface, when this happens? And feelings of awkwardness wouldn't suggest in any way that muscles ARE being subjected to unhealthy and unnecessary tensions in the first place (whether the player is aware of them or not) before anything starts to be 'subsumed'? I'm getting a strong suspicion that you are keen to use a new favourite word, but really haven't stopped to think your argument through.

It seems that you're trying to say is that you should feel that something is awkward but just not tense up when it becomes awkward? If that's the mind-set it sounds to me as being indicative of problems that have yet to be solved being left to their own devices- not a practical mantra. If feelings of awkwardness remain, you still have problems. Simple as that. Whether you're consciously tensing up as a result of them or not doesn't make that underlying awkwardness any better. You need to find the cause of that. It should not be there to begin with. In many cases, counterproductive tensions can be freed up very easily, once you have uncovered the reason why the mechanism is forced to resort to them. You can release those tensions a thousand times after the event, but until you understand why your body needs to keep resorting to them (by dealing with the underlying problem that continues to induce them) the real problem (or base level of awkwardness) never goes away. Just because you've never learned how to fully remove awkwardness while playing, does not mean that you should start preaching some absurd mantra about how feelings of awkwardness might supposedly serve a valuable purpose to others.

Are we talking about the kind of 'awkwardness' that might occur from a totally impractical basis for technique- say one in which the weight of the arms is never permitted to settle upon the fingers for an instant (forcing the muscles that support the arms mid-air to work extremely hard on a constant basis)? I can certainly see why feelings of awkwardness might never seem to go away, when following such a method...


Edited by Nyiregyhazi (09/07/09 08:21 PM)
_________________________
http://pianoscience.blogspot.com/

Top
(ad) My Music Staff
Check out the new way to manage your music studio
#1264249 - 09/07/09 08:13 PM Re: Are you a desperado? [Re: cruiser]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
Originally Posted By: cruiser
Thanks for the link, kbk.

I seem to have been going on about this since joining the PW forums in Feb 2007 but believe me, the teachers I've tried so far have all been disappointing - no structured learning strategy designed to match my needs, no mention of how best to practice, no tailored technique exercises. As you yourself mentioned, I'll know when - if! - I find the right teacher!


Have you specifically requested this? While there are some teachers who might start imposing a regime on a new student from day 1, that would not necessarily be normal, even with a good teacher. Especially with older students. If you're looking for this kind of approach, it could be that there are teachers who could offer it- provided that they are aware of what you are looking for. I suspect that many teachers would be quite capable of giving useful advice in these respects, but would consider it patronising or off-putting to launch into such things with a new student. If they realise that you want them to run over the absolute fundamentals, I'd be amazed to think that there wouldn't be a teacher in your vicinity who could offer some good advice. A lot of very capable teachers would sooner keep a student happy, than risk being seen to come down upon them like a tonne of bricks from the very first lessons- and possibly put them off entirely. However, if a student makes it clear that they want to be led through the fine details, I'm sure that there are a decent number of teachers who can offer that.


Edited by Nyiregyhazi (09/07/09 08:27 PM)
_________________________
http://pianoscience.blogspot.com/

Top
#1264537 - 09/08/09 11:36 AM Re: Are you a desperado? [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
Cruiser:

Apprehension, anxiety, uncertainty, conflicting, or too complex thinking can create a heavy, unmanageable mindset that feels like stumbling and mumbling in our brains.

It comes from not giving clear, astute, one impulse directions to the body when moving about on the piano. Movements are "jabby", unspecific destinations such as an approximate area for the destination of the hand, instead of a shaped hand and finger trajectory heading to a specific note.

This is often a mishap because of physical size if you have a large hand and wide fingers, or if you keep your inner arms close to your body, the hand just doesn't travel well across the keyboard using a straight line or an arc, there is no freedom in motion.

I am suggesting that you listen to your self as it thinks through a piece you play well. Exactly what words to you use - make a list. Do the same with a piece you are seeing for the first time. Keep the music materials fairly simple if possible. And you don't have to do a lot - just get a sample of what is being said with your inner voice.

I am thinking there are "issues" in the way you approach your music from the first note onward - that the issues come from having your own sense of direction from having to find your own way on the piano.

I think my comments would apply to any self taught player - IF - the pianist were to willingly meet with a teacher who knows pedagogy and technique and body movement appropriate for the instrument, the pianist would get some new directions as to how to "BE" at the piano. Some examination of the brain and it's thinking process for making music, and the physical impulse that results from the thought being also examined for efficiency and effectiveness might make you a better, cleaner, controlled pianist.

The path to "bettering" yourself does not have to be painful or diminishing, although I know some would go that route. There are ways to get through this process of examining and restructuring and have it be a wonderful "freeing" experience. Once improvements start you begin to glide and thrive on the improvements.

I think I am feeling your "mindset" as being part of your problem as you have substituted what the teachers did not tell you (they may have not at all known these concepts) with your own mannerisms, unchecked, and the lack of information/guidance on their part, have left you without the efficiency you need. The "machine" (you) is off enough to provoke you in many, possibly, every way.

I am taking a risk by saying these things to you - we'll never know if I could find and fix what is bothering you - but I know I've done it for others in the past. I wish I could skype with you or see your playing videos as it would give me some "meat" for discussion of specific things - as would your "list" of your thoughts while playing.

So, it's brain and being at the piano that would need examination and gentle restructuring. There is also the possiblity that many helpful things that would have made the difference have not been in your keyboard orientation or in your playing experience to date.

I believe these things exist in us as "unfinished business."

I hope you don't feel picked upon, and if you totally object to this post, please say so. I can cease and desist easily.

Betty


Edited by Betty Patnude (09/08/09 11:41 AM)

Top
#1264615 - 09/08/09 01:27 PM Re: Are you a desperado? [Re: Betty Patnude]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Why not contact the abrsm and see if they have a teacher in or around your city? The abrsm progression of pieces and technique is very well thought out IMO. ABRSM is becoming more and more popular with adults.

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Do you need piano cover?
by myip
09/24/14 12:23 AM
It Wouldn't Have Made Any Difference - Todd Rundgren - Perf.
by Chris Huebner
09/24/14 12:09 AM
Seattle area musicians needed for Bach's birthday
by quodlibet
09/23/14 11:47 PM
Mason & Hamlin- The Skinny?
by Miguel Rey
09/23/14 09:55 PM
crazy fingers, or mind of their own
by Barry1963
09/23/14 09:52 PM
Who's Online
93 registered (Anticlock, ando, 30 invisible), 1112 Guests and 17 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76297 Members
42 Forums
157721 Topics
2316725 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission