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#1266945 - 09/12/09 09:15 AM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: dumdumdiddle]
Sparkler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 177
Originally Posted By: dumdumdiddle
I was going to echo Betty's comment about MTNA. Joining MTNA is different from being MTNA certified. You do have to meet certain qualifications to join, and there are a wealth of programs available to you and your students when you do join. That, in itself, will set you apart from other neighborhood teachers, particularly those who are just teaching for 'a little extra spending money'. You can then decide if you want to become certified.

I would venture that if you joined MTNA and/or Guild, and mentioned it in advertising for students, you would have no trouble getting a nice number of students. Many MTNA branches are listed in the yellow pages, have their own websites, etc..., and include a list of all teacher-member names and contact info.


I didn't realize before that there was a difference between becoming MTNA certified and being an MTNA member. So thanks for pointing that out!!!
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#1266946 - 09/12/09 09:17 AM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: bitWrangler]
Sparkler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 177
Originally Posted By: bitWrangler


I can't imagine that it would actually be a "problem" for anyone. Some might even welcome the change. I could see how if you were going the other way (from accepting various forms of payment to only accepting cash) that that would cause some distress. Like JvdB mentions you could always offer a "cash discount" and/or a discount for prepayment.


Gotcha. Thx!
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#1266947 - 09/12/09 09:18 AM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: Overexposed]
Sparkler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 177
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
Hi Sparkler,

I had 5 students my first year. Then advertised on Craigslist and gave a certificate for a complimentary month of lessons to a raffle/fundraiser at my son's elementary school. Still have 3 students who found out about me thru Craigslist and one student plus two referrals from the winners of the raffle. The second year I had 12, and now starting my 3rd year I've gotten word of mouth referrals...now at 18.

I did get inappropriate responses also from Craigslist...but just deleted them. And now I no longer have to advertise. Still, it helped me get started.

I too made policy changes shortly after a couple of new students started lessons. But it went over OK. Now I'm planning rate increases and any policy tweaking to be done once a year.

I wish you well!


Thx, Ann in Kentucky. I've thought about Craigslist as well. I'm really going to start drumming it up after straightening out my policy thx to you guys.
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#1266948 - 09/12/09 09:21 AM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: abcdefg]
Sparkler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 177
Originally Posted By: abcdefg
I agree with most everything that has already been said. I also think that cash only is more difficult to keep track of. It is a lot easier to keep track of checks that have parent's names on them. I have had a few parents that paid in cash and I felt obligated to give them a receipt. I have had one bad check in almost 20 years and the parent called and told me before I even knew about it.

As far as parents at lessons, I encourage that, especially for young beginners. I want the parents to be resonsible and involved in the student's daily practice. Plus they see their progress and appreciate their accomplishments more when they hear what we are doing from week to week. If the parent hears me praising their son/daughter for doing such a good job at the lesson then everyone goes home feeling good about what they are doing. Likewise the parent can hear when the lesson is not quite up to standard and can help son/daughter get back on track.

Also I would recommend joining your local MTNA organization. They often have programs and events that can involve your studio.

As far as helping your studio to grow. My first students were from friends at church. My children were in school and their friends began calling for lessons. It can be challenging to teach a student one day and have them come over and play with your children the next but we made it work.

Good luck.


Thank you! I have many friends from church too. Unfortunately (?) I do have one friend who had already been teaching most of these kids and charging peanuts. So none of them would be crazy about paying my prices. But I do go to a large church so I will have to keep trying. smile
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#1267083 - 09/12/09 01:41 PM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: Sparkler]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5590
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: Sparkler
Unfortunately (?) I do have one friend who had already been teaching most of these kids and charging peanuts. So none of them would be crazy about paying my prices. But I do go to a large church so I will have to keep trying. smile


That happens way too often. I used to attend a church. The pastor's wife gave keyboard lessons for free. There are free keyboard lessons for the grannies, and they'd give keyboard recitals. I was in the sixth grade, but even back then I was cringing at those recitals.
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#1267106 - 09/12/09 02:54 PM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: AZNpiano]
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3450
Loc: Western Canada
If you are always worrying about the "competition" then you are in the wrong business!

My philosophy is:

"Give them just a little more than they expect" and truly believe in what you are selling"! Then they will be banging your door down!

Talking down about another teacher's studio is a "no-no"! Truthfully, some people should just absolutely "not" be piano teachers, even though they have all the credentials.

When first starting out, I was constantly told by certain people that I should not be teaching (usually by my competitinon). But I believed in my heart that I should! So I started with just 5 students. If they stayed, I'd continue. The next year, I said, if I have 10 students, I'll continue. And so it went! And I taught the way I would have wanted to be taught when I was young! And that proved successful.

But each year, I gained more and more confidence and was getting more and more students by word of mouth!

An important aspect is Honesty! I never lied about anything! Was always upfront! Gave parents names of other teachers so they didn`t feel pressure to take me!

But I truly believed and still believe in myself. Took me years to get here, but if I didn`t believe I was good, I would go work in an office or something!

Lots of different students and lots of different teachers! Just have to find the right match!
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#1267169 - 09/12/09 05:33 PM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: Diane...]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7417
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
This discussion really piqued my curiosity. Exactly what is the student to teacher ratio in our county?

By doing a demographics search on the web, I found that there are roughly 32,000 students county wide between the ages 5 and 17. There are a minimum of 120 people teaching piano. That works out to 266 potential students per teacher.

I frequently quiz my young students asking if there are other kids in their school class who take piano. The answer is generally no, but sometimes, there is one other student.

I realize that this is really WAGing (you all know what a WAG is? A wild a$$ guess) but we're talking between 2% and 4% of students, max, take piano lessons. So, based on this, in our community at least, a studio of 15 to 20 students would be superior, and that is what I'm hearing from colleagues.

The best I did was peak out at 27 students a few years back. At the moment, it has dropped quite a bit. Some of that may be due to the economy. And I'm sure that if I dropped my rates, I'd enroll more students, but those who come, take trial lessons, always continue on. So at least in our neck of the woods, competition is fierce and parents/students are fortunate to have their pick of many fine teachers at competitive rates.


Edited by John v.d.Brook (09/12/09 06:52 PM)
Edit Reason: correct bad spelling!
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"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1267181 - 09/12/09 05:52 PM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: John v.d.Brook]
DragonPianoPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 2368
Loc: Denver, CO
John, the technical term for your calculation is order of magnitude estimate. Also know as a back of the envelope calculation. laugh

Looking at demographics across the US, your target age group is only about 17% of the population. Sounds to me like this is a good reason to focus on bringing in more adult students. laugh

Rich
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#1267218 - 09/12/09 06:51 PM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: DragonPianoPlayer]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7417
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Rich, excellent suggestion!

Here's another thought. I'm one of two teachers in town who actively push parents to upgrade instruments. I work closely with dealers, not on commission, but as a "let's help each other out because it's in both our interests" type of arrangement. Students will enjoy the piano more if they learn on a better instrument, they will be more likely to pursue arts as adults if their childhood experiences were positive, etc. If we could bump that 4% figure up to 8% in a generation, wow, what it difference it would make for all concerned.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1267271 - 09/12/09 09:21 PM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
I relocated my piano studio in October 2006 to a new area. I think about 7 students continued with me as they were coming from quite a distance, not as the crow flies, but as traffic jams during commuter hours. It would add an extra 30 - 45 minutes on to their trip from my old location. So I now have 1 student from that group of students who is continuing again this year - since 2001, actually. The other long term students had dropped by September 2008 after 6 to 8 years of study. So I have been in the rebuilding stage of my studio for the past 3 years.

Some may remember reading that in September last year I had about 9 students drop when it was back to school time. Email messages were their vehicle, not in person at all. It just seemed like "crunch" time for them as we entered this past difficult year. One person cited distance and I could understand that, distance AND traffic jams. The others were in their first or second year. What a big disappointment that was and beleive it or not, the first time I'd experienced someone leaving without giving me 30 day notice.

Since then the inquiries from the music directory services seem to fall flat before much information is given. I think perhaps people are very cautious and want people lessons but when it comes to writing the check or making the appointment, something cautions them in their minds about now not being the time.

I've been wondering about something that works along with this caution. So many teachers talk about students not practicing, parents not supportive when there are problems, and many students have keyboard that do not compare with acoustic music instruction so the sounds and touch are different than the ones they have lessons on. Given the rapidity that some teachers dismiss a non-thriving student, perhaps we all have inadvertently painted a negative picture of what "traditional" piano lessons are in today's society. I think we're being replaced by keyboard lab studios who group teach, the learning experience groups like KinderMusic which teach general music from toddler age up to about 8, and early beginners level 1 (usually). I haven't done a price comparison as consumers would see it, but I've been wondering how it factors out for us as private teachers.

These groups are reenrolling in the next step of lessons in about 10 - 13 week units. They can catch the next class now or later in another semester.

I wonder what we might do to invite more serious inquiries into our studios because the past 3 years to me have been like in the real estate lingo "looky-loos".

Yes, there are several that have enrolled and are in their 3rd year here and we are getting along nicely, several joined in the past year, I have a few new starts this week as my studio opens again, and I have a few inquiries that are pending an appointment. So, I'm building very slowly compared to other years in two other locations where from 1981-1993 I had 35-40 students, moved 1993-2006 about 25-30, and now between 10 and 20 so far.

I think this is a revelation.

One of the other considerations is that many musical people have started teaching piano due to the economy and losing other jobs in the families. I think churches and their children's schools and sports teams are where they meet their prospective students.

The referrals from the local music stores are few and far between, as are the inquiries from my music teaching chapter's website. So, I expect that the word of mouth netwook is working very well.

Is anyone else perplexed about these kinds of influences on our established businesses? How long do you think we will remain affected by these situational concerns? Do you see options?

Betty

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#1267316 - 09/12/09 11:15 PM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: Betty Patnude]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5590
Loc: Orange County, CA
And another thought...

Set a goal for your studio in terms of the type of students you want. Naturally, those who do not fit the goal will drop out, and your studio will attract the type of students you want.

I keep in touch with several of my friends from college. I have by far the fewest number of students, but I get to work with kids who play well, are serious about piano, and win a bunch of competitions. Some of my friends prefer to work with little kids and beginners, and they deal with a whole different set of issues.
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#1267670 - 09/13/09 06:16 PM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: AZNpiano]
Sal_ Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 355
Loc: Lacey, WA
I've been trying for about a month to get started and not a single inquiry.
Advertising ****s.

I also wonder if I'm charging a bit too much considering my lack of credentials, but when I think about all the work outside of lessons that I know I'm going to put in, I don't really want to lower them.

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#1267697 - 09/13/09 07:05 PM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: Sal_]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
Hi, Sal,

I've been wondering about how you were doing down in the Lacey-Olympia area since you moved here and announced you were going to build your studio. The last we heard you were building your website. If you published your link here we could take a look at it again and see if there is something that we might notice that would make a difference to you.

Not a single inquiry is a disappointing situation. But since you have stated prices to them before meeting them and giving them your spiel on your teaching, only the location and the price are what they are considering. They don't have access to who you are, what you look like, your age group, you playing the piano for them.

How can you make their inquiry and entry into your studio more personal and attractive?

So many people are teaching piano with out credentials that I don't think that's a big factor. For instance MTNA has 24,000 members across the US, and Washington State has remained at about 1000 - 1200 since I joined in 1981. If credentials and professional association memberships were the calling cards, our MTNA - WSMTA studios would be absolutely full with long waiting lists.

What seems to be thriving are the new studios of teachers who are networked into sports, school, church activities with their own children. I'm not sure what they are charging, but when I see a new teacher starting and they are charging what I and others with years of experience are charging, that makes me irritated somewhat. At the same time, I realize that it takes quite a bit of income to provide for oneself in today's economy.

When I started teaching in 1981 I charged $6 at home and $10 in their home for half an hour. I no longer travel and my fees are $25 for half an hour and $40 per hour. I can't afford to reduce them because of the lower size of my studio during the past 3 years.

At some point, clients may realize what they are getting for their money and make some serious changes in the description of what they are looking for in lessons. For instance, quality of instruction is not a consideration I've heard from parents in many years.

I hope you get even more pro-active in favor of yourself because I know you have musical abilities to share just as I felt I did when I started teaching. You have a sense of purpose and confidence and you should be able to use make use of it just like all the other new teachers are doing.

I just hope that they all have what is needed to be a piano teacher and that it is not just turning pages in a method book for them without having the smarts behind it. That would be a very sad scene for the next decade to come. I hope it's not just about gaining "easy" earning power to augment family income.

Betty

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#1267706 - 09/13/09 07:13 PM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: Sal_]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7417
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Sal, these are tough decisions and tough times. You have several dozens of piano teachers living and working within a 2 mile radius of where you live - there are 3 on my block alone! There are several Korean and Chinese teachers living near you who dramatically undercharge the market (I just lost 2 students to them, 1 a military family whom I was already offering a 10% tuition discount to). You can understand how an immigrant family would be more comfortable with someone with the same background, language and experiences. I certainly can.

About advertising. This town is leans heavily to the left politically, and our local paper reflects this bent. But a good 3rd of the population is more conservative and rather than being insulted by the daily diatribes, read the Tacoma paper. So, many of the people you'd like to reach are reading the local paper.

When first moving here, now 11 years ago, I advertised heavily in the two military post papers, and it netted me only a couple of students - barely offset the costs.

Talking with other teachers at the local music store, I find they are experience similar problems you and I are.

I don't have a solution for you, because if I did, I'd be using it myself. The economy will turn, eventually, I hope. So in the mean time, as my studio isn't flourishing like it was 4 years ago, I'm using the extra time to work on repertoire I put off polishing. It's actually rather enjoyable.

By the way, you really should stop by for coffee some time so we can chat.

John
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1267776 - 09/13/09 08:46 PM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: Betty Patnude]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17815
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Betty Patnude
when I see a new teacher starting and they are charging what I and others with years of experience are charging, that makes me irritated somewhat.


Yet in other threads you express irritation with the teachers who charge markedly less than you do, because you correctly feel that it undermines the market and makes it more difficult for you to maintain your fees.

You've stated on several occasions that it irritates you when new teachers charge the going rate. Let me ask a very specific question, then: You say you charge $25 per half hour and $40 per hour. Exactly how much do you think a new teacher in your general area should charge?
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#1267784 - 09/13/09 09:14 PM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: Monica K.]
Sal_ Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 355
Loc: Lacey, WA
John, I'd love to stop by sometime. My schedule is as open as can be, so just say when. I'd meant to make it up to Yenney's this past week and completely forgot. "several dozens of piano teachers living and working within a 2 mile radius of where you live"... why do I bother? Just send me your teens who can't do math. I'll be satisfied with that. wink

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#1273143 - 09/23/09 12:59 AM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: Sparkler]
PianoKitty Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 133
Loc: US
You sound a lot like me when I first started out. I wasn't sure what to charge, what kind of policies to have, etc. I agree with pps that you need to increase your lesson fees and registration fee. I charge $40 per year registration. As pps said, it pays for studio operating costs, copies/staff paper, computer programs, piano maintenance, etc. Sometimes I think that isn't enough, considering that I will also have to buy recital certificates or rewards, Christmas gifts, etc. I can't imagine only charging $15 per year. Raise those fees a bit!

Regarding how long it takes to build a studio...I may have been really lucky in this department. It didn't take me long at all to get to full capacity. It took me only 6 months to go from zero students to 35 students. Within 8 months, I was still full at 35 students and had a waiting list a mile long. Being in a large city with a ton of piano teachers, I was shocked at how quickly I filled up. Word of mouth is *everything.* I advertised a little at first, but then found that most of my students were referrals from current students. I also donated a month's worth of lessons to a charity auction, and attached several business cards to the certificate, and that event alone got me about 5 students, as well as word of mouth afterward. I would get people calling who said, "I heard about you from so-and-so" and I would have no idea who they were talking about...which was a good indication that my name and reputation were getting around in the community. I have not advertised at all since the first few months of starting to teach, and I am not listed on any web sites, but I find that I don't need any of that, so why bother with the expense. I am also raising my rates in January. I'm finding that if students and parents are happy and the students are excelling, they don't mind paying an extra $5 per week for a great teacher.

I also recommend doing a meet and greet for prospective students. This is where your personality and education shines, and you can demonstrate how you interact with your students and how/what you teach. This is a strength of mine, and one reason I believe my studio filled up so quickly. You can also weed out any "problem" parents or students that might cause conflict later on.

Regarding your policies, I echo the cash-only thing. I think you should change that so as not to give off a bad vibe. But the rest of your policies sound fine to me. They sound like mine LOL. Many parents have said that one reason they signed up with me was that my policies are so professional, so that might serve you well in the end. People respect a professional business.

Bottom line...be patient and don't compromise yourself just to attract students. The longer you teach, the more your name will get out there and you can build a great reputation for yourself. In the meantime, make the small changes this group suggested and keep focusing on being a great teacher! =)
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#1280488 - 10/04/09 11:27 AM Re: How long did it take you to build up a healthy full studio? [Re: Sparkler]
musiclady Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 431
Loc: Toronto, Canada
It took me about 5 years, though I consider a healthy studio is about 15-20 students, and I have a lot of performance committments this year, plus studying and taking lessons for my own exams.

Meri
_________________________
Clarinet and Piano Teacher based out of Toronto, Canada.Web: http://donmillsmusicstudio.weebly.com

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