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Behave like the loving mother your son needs. You are not behaving very responsibly if you really want for your son to thrive musically and spiritually.
That is the only thing I can think to say to you.
The conflict you are having in your mind, I believe, is about you. You are taking out some aggression on people in your son's like who are there to give him the finest instruction he is capable of receiving. He has a lot to live up to in a conservatory environment and he will not be able to enjoy his path to musicianship with the baggage of having a mother who is creating some very unpleasant circumstances for him.
Can you stop yourself in mid-track here? Now? Before it's too late?
When this is all said and done and he's about 18 years old, is he going to consider you his ally or his archenemy? Actually, he might be on his way to thinking those things much sooner if you can't cease and desist from making everything a confrontation between you and the teacher(s) or administration.
Approach them respectfully with your requests. Your son is going to need a lot of mentors and guides to help him get to his music career so don't close any doors now in your haste. These kinds of things will come back to bite you in the a.. if he gets that far.
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Thank you Betty. I will try to put the conflict aside for the sake of my son's hapiness. He does not see me as his adversary -- he's shocked at what they did to me because he was there and he never heard me bad mouth his old teacher.
I have learned a very valuable lesson:
1. NEVER critisize a conservatory teacher! They are too self-inflated to take criticism well. Always use the "poor chemistry" excuse and leave it at that.
2. Let your child voice their own complaints to their own teachers and do not get involved. If the teacher is too mean for the child to approach, then have him talk to the Director on his own.
3. Smile and pretend like this teacher did not screw me.
Last edited by BusyMom; 09/21/09 11:53 PM.
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Busymom, I dont claim to know the world about the parent student relationship, all I have is the collected experience of others as well as my own. I am a teenager and I get along with my mum really really well, if anything we are almost like friends.
First off, you seem to be quite aggitated by the teacher that you describe. From what you say his behaviour of calling you the 'parent from heck' seems harsh. You should not have heard that and its not at all nice to say. With that said, many on the board have questioned your 'behaviour'. I don't know you personally so I won't evaluate but I will say that you evaluate the need to take an active role as a parent without being 'annoying'. Perhaps it is time to think about what might agitate a teacher as a parent. Telling a teacher how to teach is sometimes likened to a person without children telling another person how to raise their children. My mother tended to 'side'with my teacher and as a result I didn't like my teacher. With saying that my mum is completely musically illiterate and she wasn't informed of her need to support my journey as a growing musiciain. What was essential was communication at the time and it is something that others have repeated over this thread.
As a parent, your concern over your son and your care is evident as you choose to send him to a conservatory teacher. I am not a teacher... I am mearely a student but you seemed to have want to 'change'or make the teacher aware of how to teach children. I understand that from your own experience the teacher is perhaps not suited to your eight year old. I can see agitations and I might share an experience of mine, I was agitated once at my former teacher as I thought his lessons lacked depth and substance. I too did speak of setting goals and having him 'change' his method of teaching, it didn't work, after much discussion he stuck to his ways. I am not saying that people are rigid, I am saying that you either stay with this teacher and accept his way of teaching or change teachers.
With that said, you would be best to talk to your own son. See if he is even interested in playing the piano or studying music. Some parents make the 'wrong diagnosis', piano is almost a generic instrument and some kids are more interested in saxophone, cello or violin. See with your son, thinking of pursuing a career is really a big thought. My teacher expressed to me that we never even really make that decision we just study and find that we'd love to do this for the rest of our lives.
I must congradulate you for taking a keen interest in your sons education, my mum and I get along really well. At this stage she does not attend all my performances, she'll go to the ones with the songs she likes. She also doesn't correspond with my taecher much, she might talk to my piano teacher occasionally or my school music teacher ... why do I tell you this? What you are doing now is by all means correct, but see who's motivation it is to take lessons. All to many times you see the pushy parent who takes their kids to competitions and lives vicariously through their kids. I am not saying that you are like this... my real concern is over the fact that you speak of making your son a proffessional or having a career.
Some things to think about it. It seems it is appropriate to find another teacher after this experience with a conservatory teacher but think about your role as a parent, your son's wishes and what you BOTH (and later on what you all want including the teacher) out of lesson.
Just some food for thought, I hope that helped.
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My children's music teachers are my employees. If I don't like them, I'll fire them and employ others. Unless he has a talent as precocious as Mozarts, there are any number of teachers who will be able to make a decent job of teaching piano to an 8-year old. An 18-year-old might be slightly different, of course.
I can see absolutely no reason to get involved in an emotional entanglement over the piano tuition of an 8-year-old, even a very capable one. If you don't like your kid's teachers -- for any reason at all -- you're absolutely entitled to tell them to go to the hot place and get new ones.
Just my $0.02, of course.
Last edited by kevinb; 09/22/09 08:33 AM.
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Hi Rebekah,
thanks you for the food for thought. my son is the one who wants a career in music as an adult, and he has the talent and drive for it (although he temporarily lost his drive due to the fallout after asking for a new teacher). personally, i know many super talented musicians who can't find well paying jobs in the music industry because they did not have good music teachers in their youth. so that's why i'm going through all this to get a conservatory education for my son.
how old are you? i ask you this because i'm wondering when my son will be old enough for me to sit back and "just do the driving" instead of playing personal secretary to his music studies.
Last edited by BusyMom; 09/22/09 09:18 AM.
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To some extent, I think conservatory politics are impossible to avoid. Every city I've lived in has some sort of situation where Good Student started with Teacher X, quit, went to Teacher Y, and now Teacher X accuses Teacher Y of stealing students, Teacher Y refuses to talk to Teacher X because he's crazy, Teachers Z, W, and P start to get caught in the middle and are pressured to take sides, Teacher X's other students' parents take his side and talk bad about Teacher Y, Teacher Y's students' parents take her side and talk bad about Teacher X. Meanwhile, both Teacher X and Teacher Y's students are the ones who win the competitions and play better than Teacher Z, W, and P's students, so if you want to be with one of the "best" teachers, you have to choose between X and Y because Z, W, and P don't seem interested or able to get the kind of results the parent of Student J wants.
From what I hear, it tends to be the same at the upper levels of any competitive endeavor, be it gymnastics, mathematics teams, or spelling bees. People get focused on results and competitions, and they drive themselves (and others) crazy trying to scramble their way to the top.
My advice would simply be to consider what you want the end result to be. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume you're interested in competitive piano activities. (These kinds of politics seem most heated in competitive circles.) If that's the case, then you should give some serious thought to how important competitive piano is and whether or not it really advances your goal of preparing your son for a career in music. I'm not saying competitive piano is a bad thing - competitions can be very worthwhile, but I can easily name as many pianists with happy careers in music who never did well in competitions as I can competition winners whose careers stalled, failed, or never got off the ground after they outgrew competitions and found themselves not knowing what to do next.
I would also ignore any advice regarding your parenting skills given 6 paragraphs on an internet forum. I can't imagine any of us have a clear idea of what you're like as a parent, and who's to say any of us are any better? (Unless one of us is Jon Nakamatsu's mom, in which case please speak up and tell us how you pulled that one off!)
Also, don't think you're alone. I read your post thinking "hmm...I wonder if I can figure out who she's talking about," but truth be told, I can think of situations that match the one you described in *every* competitive piano community I've had some experience with. (And some are worse - I've met people who haven't spoken to each other in decades because of a single incident with a student quitting. It's NUTS.)
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) www.pianoped.comwww.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
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Excuse me Mom-from-heck, but are you saying your son is 9 years old and knows what he wants to be?
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Exactly what did you hope to accomplish here by your posting?
I can't imagine that your hysterics here are helpful to your child who as you say just 9 years old. When you said: "My child was adamant about not continuing lessons with him", could it be your child was comfortable with his teacher and is now greatly embarrassed for his teacher to have been caught up in an argument involving his mother.
If your child hasn't expressed interest in changing teachers before your altercation with the teacher there is no reason to act upon it. If progress was being made and there was mutual respect between them they needed to keep that situation. If your child has not complained to you about anything occuring in the lesson you are in danger of destroying his self confidence and his future work.
No conservatory career has ever been helped by a parent making demands and accusation against a teacher.
Are you paying full tuition or is he a scholarship student?
I wonder if you have an idea of the conflicts you will create for your son if you don't learn how to talk to people when you need their assistance in creating a new scenario for your son?
This is serious stuff and when you say "trauma" and "angst" the only person whom I see showing those kinds of emotions to us is, unfortunately, you.
Your child and his talent is going to be undermined severely by things such as you've told us. I predict that your child will continue to be the middleman of a situation he has no control over. That alone would make him want to quit.
Actually I feel a little heartbroken at hearing this story.
It's a story where no body wins.
Wow Betty, how insightful! I guess I always tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, in this case, the OP. But now that you point out these things, coupled with the seeming over-reaction by the OP by not wanting to be "found out" in case someone at that school comes on this forum really sheds new light on the subject.
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My children's music teachers are my employees. If I don't like them, I'll fire them and employ others.
Really? You pay their FICA, Federal, State, and unemployment taxes for them? Do you offer benefits as well? Pensions? And are you still hiring? Sounds like a dream job to me! They are not employees, they are independent contractors. They run their business however they feel is best, be that good or bad, and you pay them for their services. When you "fire" a teacher, you are the one leaving, not them leaving the business. A teacher, like when you hire someone to build you a house, is the supposed professional in this. In an employer/employee relationship, the employer knows how to run the business and what the employee should be doing. You can tell your contractor what features you'd like your house to have, but you shouldn't tell him how to hang drywall or how to tile, because he's the expert. This contractor scenario is more analogous to a teacher/student relationship then employer/employee. If you think you are a teacher's employer, then you also think you have the right to tell them how to do their job. But how do you know what is the best way to teach technique, what order of pieces should be learned, what aspects of music they need to know for a lifetime of fulfilling music-making? I think perhaps this is the problem the OP had - an incorrect concept of who the teacher is. Ask questions? Sure. Communication is key. Let the teacher know if your child is having trouble, or if there are things that they want to learn (like how to play "Smoke on the Water" or whatever). We're happy to oblige. But there is a fine line between that and telling the teacher how to teach. What exactly are you paying them for if you're telling them how to do their job? Something to think about.
Last edited by Morodiene; 09/22/09 09:36 AM.
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BusyMom -
My experience is that children change their mind about their adult "careers" many times. So right now we know your child has had an unpleasant experience with a piano teacher, and both of you are experiencing some distress about it. Your son indicates he doesn't know if he wants to continue lessons - who would! Too much emotion to be fun.
Everyone needs to take a step back.
There is nothing magic or special about teachers at the community/prep schools associated with conservatories. These teachers may or may not be on the "real" faculty and may or may not be the best teachers in a given community. Without knowing your location, it is hard to say. The are certainly NOT the ONLY good teachers in the community. Many teachers on these faculties teach in several venues.
If I was selecting a teacher for a student who was interested in competitions, I would look not only at teachers affiliated with conservatories, but also those who regularly place students in such events.
As a parent though, my advice to you would be to find a teacher who loved teaching children to play the piano and who was VERY good at it. By which I mean the children practice and love their lessons and their teacher (well most of the time). A teacher who had high expectations but tempered them based on the age and temperment of the child. A teacher who will take your phone call and explain what they are doing. A teacher who doesn't set your nerves on edge. While I don't think teachers like having their every lesson second guessed, neither can they do their best work if you are just a "drive by" parent.
Another piece of advice - try to have (preliminary) interviews with teachers and any discussions where you might be perceived as questionning the teacher out of earshot of the child. As a parent, I've learned through experience that that's the quickest way to get twisted into an unpleasant triangle. It sounds like your emotions are high - mine might be too in this situation - and I don't think your son needs more emotionality around his lessons. It doesn't always make the child feel supported.
I hope your interviews go well.
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My children's music teachers are my employees. If I don't like them, I'll fire them and employ others. Unless he has a talent as precocious as Mozarts, there are any number of teachers who will be able to make a decent job of teaching piano to an 8-year old. An 18-year-old might be slightly different, of course. I would disagree with both parts of this post. First, unless you really do own some type of music school, music teachers are not employees, at best they are contractors, all are service providers. While it's true that as a consumer, you are free to walk (within the stipulations of any contract that was signed or agreed to), that is another thing entirely than being an employer. As to the second part, it may be true in a large metropolitan area, but if the OP's 8yo is as talented as they mention, then there can be precious few teachers who can bring the student along in a manner that is far better than simply "decent". Even in my neck of the woods, while not NY or LA, is a pretty decent sized city, I can count on one hand the number of teachers that are considered cream of the crop for someone of that age. AAMOF, I would conjecture that the situation is the opposite, as you get older, then you can find more high level teachers as many of them won't take students below a certain age. Not to mention the fact that many of these top tier teachers tend to have full studios (though I would hazard to guess that if the student was of sufficient talent, that room can be made). So while I agree with your overall statement, it's your money and time (and your kids), use them to your advantage, I disagree that given a sufficiently advanced student that it really is "that simple".
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Hi Busymom,
Glad you liked to read the post. I am 17 years old, turning 18 in 2 months so I am about to graduate. I started to do most of the 'driving' when I was 14 but my teachers say that it's a bit unusual to start to be autonomous at my age. The fact that my mum is completley musically illiterate drove me to find my own teachers and interview them myself. I'm planning to study at a conservarium next year to study music performance so I guess that is the next step to becoming a proffessional. What you say about the right teacher is correct. The history/ experiences of the teacher I see surpasses my goals as a musician but without him I don't think I'd be able to study music at a university level. Without going into that much detail, he makes a living as a concert pianist, teacher, lecturer and accompanist. He works part time at some of the best conservatoriums here. His experiences in music studies is very useful since I am looking to study music after I finish school.
It is worthwhile to find a good teacher but I think that this stage of your sons development it would help to find someone who studied music education. I say that because music education specialists also study psychology and understand development. There are teachers I know that choose to take up proffessionals and pre-proffessionals, some teachers aren't that well versed in pedagogy and teaching younger children. I could be wrong but it sounds like the case in your sons experience.
Does your son need a conservatory teacher though? Would a teacher with a relevant degree and performing career suffice? It does in my case, I dont see a conservatory teacher.
I dont mean to give any parenting advice at this point. These are just some ideas that I have evaluated and collected over gifted and prodigy children. Some parents go to the extreme of banning their children from certain activities (ice skating, cricket, etc) in the belief that it would 'spoil their hands'. THis might sound silly but its true, other parents exclude their children from other areas of study... I've seen parents exclude sports and even a general education - arithmatic and literature. I doubt that you do go to extremes, lets not forget that you have a nine year old in your hands, he might change his mind and find something different, you never know.
My mum never pushed me in any direction, she just supported and encouraged me all the way whenever I took an interest in something. As I result, there is so much in the world that I feel so honoured to be acquainted with. I really enjoy immersing myself in language, literature is an interest of mine. I also like history and mathematics... I can get carried away here but you get my drift. I am not advising you, just stating that there is a trap that many parents of prodigies fall into.
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Busy Mom,
I don’t see that you asked a question in your post. It looks as if you vented about a frustration. Instead, I would suggest you post a specific question.
Several teachers here asked what level your son is playing. You never answered (unless I missed it) The reason we ask is because talent will take your son a long way. You appear to be putting your of sons future success into the hands of one teacher. It is not realistic.
Again, ANOTHER analogy about my own kids; (I do that often here) My son plays very competitive baseball. For two years he has played on a traveling team. Several parents were unhappy with the coach. Parents felt the coach wasn’t qualified enough and was jeopardizing their children’s baseball future. They campaigned to oust him. These kids are 10 years old and this whole mess started when they were 8!
A meeting was called with the head of the baseball organization. He sided with the coach. He reported that of the hundreds of kids he has seem come through this competitive baseball association, four went on to play professional ball, four went to prison, and four are dead (car accidents etc).
In the end, these “parents from heck†caused a lot problems. My son was very discouraged when the coach had enough and quite. The parents and kids who supported the coach were the kids with the strongest averages and stats and the parents themselves played competitive ball. The problem parents had little competitive experience and naively expected their child’s baseball success to be determined at age 10.
I think what everyone here is advising you to do is relax. We don’t know all the details of your story but what many of us do know is that your son’s musical future is not dependent on this one experience. He is only eight.
If you live in a community that has a conservatory then you should easily find a very qualified teacher. It may be that the conservatory has very high expectations and the teacher you had is part of that school of thought. It may be that the atmosphere of the conservatory is not a match for you child. Or you may have burned your bridges. We don’t know.
Find another solution. I wish you luck.
Piano Teacher. Church Music Director. Kindermusik Instructor. Mom to four boys.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "a conservatory" for 9 yr. olds in the US, but some of the basic facts sound very familiar: teachers with big egos; overworked child wanting to quit; lack of chemistry between student and teacher; parent becoming overly involved in the lesson process; etc. We hear such things all the time on the forums, and the solution is difficult and involves many complex issues.
For example, if a child shows marvelous talent, the natural tendency is to put him with the teachers with the biggest reputations. Unfortunately, a big reputation almost invariably goes hand and hand with a big ego. That is, such a teacher will be interested first and foremost in promoting himself and only secondarily in teaching. Nevertheless, a parent might resist pulling a child out of such a situation, because of the prestige factor.
As for the lack of chemistry issue, the solution would seem to be to find a teacher with good chemistry. But it's not so simple as that. First, the parent might resist removing the child from such a prestigious school. And the school might resist a teacher switch if the current teacher objects to it.
Furthermore, if the child were to switch to a teacher with good chemistry, either in the school or outside of it, that might in turn create even more serious problems. A parent can come to resent, at the very deepest level, a situation where there is a special bond between a teacher and his child. In such a situation the parent will invariably switch the child to another teacher.
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Why can't a teacher just accept the "just bad chemistry" excuse (which was honest and 75% of the reason why my child wants to switch teachers)? I'm not sure why the teacher forced me to also give him an itemized list of complaints so the mud slinging could begin! I never wanted this to get ugly, and the ugliness is scaring my child away from music and the conservatory! Luckily there is another activity at this school that he loves (chamber music) and the head of that dept is both parent and child friendly! I'm hoping she restores my childs trust in this school. No 9 year old child should feel like he has made an enemy in the music business just bc he told his school "I don't click with that teacher. Can I have someone different?".
Also, I get the impression that top conservatories have a "take a hike" attitude towards anyone who complains. Is this universal? I know that these schools are esteemed institutions and they don't have to put up with a lot of crap from parents to keep students, but to put a parent and child thru a major trauma just for asking for a new teacher is not acceptable, IMO. policies should be put in place to limit the inevitable mud slinging that takes place so children do not associate angst with music and possibly quit music studies altogether.
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just bc he told his school "I don't click with that teacher. Can I have someone different?"... The child told the school that? Was the child able to explain in what way he believed he didn't "click"?
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Why can't a teacher just accept the "just bad chemistry" excuse (which was honest and 75% of the reason why my child wants to switch teachers)? I'm not sure why the teacher forced me to also give him an itemized list of complaints so the mud slinging could begin! I never wanted this to get ugly, and the ugliness is scaring my child away from music and the conservatory! Luckily there is another activity at this school that he loves (chamber music) and the head of that dept is both parent and child friendly! I'm hoping she restores my childs trust in this school. No 9 year old child should feel like he has made an enemy in the music business just bc he told his school "I don't click with that teacher. Can I have someone different?".
Also, I get the impression that top conservatories have a "take a hike" attitude towards anyone who complains. Is this universal? I know that these schools are esteemed institutions and they don't have to put up with a lot of crap from parents to keep students, but to put a parent and child thru a major trauma just for asking for a new teacher is not acceptable, IMO. policies should be put in place to limit the inevitable mud slinging that takes place so children do not associate angst with music and possibly quit music studies altogether. While you cannot control the "mud slinging" that is happening, this is a great moment to show your son how to be gracious and how to handle this like an adult. Perhaps you need to have a talk with this teacher and set things straight. Be the bigger person and apologize for whatever part you played in this getting out of hand, and let him know you would like to leave his studio on good terms, or even better, that you would like to try and find a solution. You first stated that the complaint about the teacher was your complaint, and now you state your son was complaining. So which is it? Was the bad chemistry on the part of you and the teacher and not your son and the teacher? Is your son no longer interested in lessons as a result of things blowing up like this, or as a result of how his teaching was? You know the answers to these questions, and I think they will be very telling. In any case, the whole "dropping him off at the door" and refusing to talk with the teacher is a very passive-aggressive response that only creates further discomfort for your son. Get things out in the open with this teacher in a respectful way. If the teacher continues to be disrespectful to you, however, then you can feel free to go and your son will see that you handled it better than he did. Chances are, this is a misunderstanding, and by being willing to hear his side of things, you might be able to come to an agreement on your son's future lessons with him. Everyone wins in that case.
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Excellent post, Morodiene. I agree completely. BusyMom, it sounds like you want your son to remain at the Conservatory. If that is correct, then my advice would be to take whatever steps are necessary to put your family back on good terms with the teachers and administrators. Apologize for whatever role you played in escalating the conflict and assert clearly your desire to be on good terms with the Conservatory. Stress that both sides are working toward the same goal: facilitating your son's advancement in piano. Engage in behaviors that will support a conciliatory point of view, i.e., attending events, going inside, smiling and speaking nicely to the teachers, volunteering, helping out with fundraising, etc. etc. Whether you were justified in your initial complaints is to a certain degree not really relevant here; the question is what is the best way, from this point on, to ensure a positive learning environment for your son. Your son has obviously picked up on the tension surrounding his training. If you are convinced that the Conservatory is the proper environment for him, for his own good, swallow your resentments and do what it takes to unruffle those ruffled feathers. A little bit of groveling can go a long way. Pyrrhic victories are victories in name only.
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BusyMom -
It seems from your posts about this time last year, that you complained about the way this conservatory was treating your daughter - similar complaints in fact - that the atmosphere was too strict, and not what you thought of as developmentally appropriate. And both of your children wish music as their career?
Do both of your children have the same teacher? Has this problem been festering for more than a year?
Perhaps you need to have a discussion with the dean, or director about what the school's expectations are in general before deciding whether to continue to enroll your children.
I suspect your child will follow your attitude. I don't think most children know what the music business is, never mind worry about enemies in it. Children do however, pick up on the attitudes parents have about their children's teachers.
Find a teacher/situation about which you can be positive and your child will do just fine
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
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Piano
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