Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway

Do both share the same action design ?

Not at the same time.

Good one... but seriously, I'm sure someone knows.

Both use Renner I believe.

A friend's 1998 Steinway L has Steinway action parts and hammers, (Labeled as such) but that was then.

I rebuilt the action in my 1917 O with complete Steinway action and hammers as well. The expert Steinway tech who voiced and regulated it suggested I avoid using Renner in that piano.

I am quite pleased with the result. It is as responsive and dynamic as any concert grand I've ever played.

Glen

Steinway uses Renner ? Then Steinway is not Steinway anymore.

Not the New York pianos...and I've heard that Hamburg will be using New York actions in the near future. Or at least NY parts...just something I've heard, so take it FWIW.

@Cashley — The Renner parts used by Hamburg now have exactly the same dimensions as the NY parts. The only major difference I know of is that the action doesn't have the "accelerated" half-round balance rail. I'm sure Peter Sumner will chime in...

NY Steinway manufactures their own action parts in-house. They also have the capability to manufacture the german style shanks on their machines as well. I think that the Hamburg Steinway parts are made by Renner to Steinway's specs at the moment.

There are some slight differences in design between the two types, but these are small, like how the keyblocks hold down the keyframe. I don't have any experience with Hamburg Steinway though, so I'm not sure of any exact differences - just what's in the service manual

Steinway seems to be on a multi-year quest to attempt to standardize the two factories products. NY dropped the L and went back to the O. NY revived the A. Hamburg pianos will soon, if not already, have NY action parts. There was a thread about rim construction awhile back. NY rims have always been laminations of maple. Hamburg rims have always been either beech or birch laminations. Don't know if that is changing. Two factories source their soundboard spruce from different local regions. That may change also.

Hamburg Steinway action parts at present(Renner) are different dimensionally than the NY made parts for the NY Steinway. There was a time as in the Pre 1984 Steinway parts whereas Renner was making the action parts for the NY Steinway for Steinway. They(Renner) didn't actually tool up and make the exact copy of the NY parts. They just modified the Hamburg parts in trying to make them compatible with the NY Steinway.They changed the wippen flange and ? in attempting to make this (modified wippen) part work. They also put the 16mm NY shank on to the Hamburg flange.
Hambug shank/flange was 17mm. New York is 16mm.
To make a long story short,they don't work resulting in a very high ratio action. What gets me is,Steinway still sells them and people continue to buy them. I did my research and concluded such. I don't get it.

Now Renner USA is again different than NY Steinway,Hamburg (Renner)Steinway though they work fine in a NY or Hamburg Steinway action specs.

Is it true that Renner manufactured the action parts on Steinway specs, so much so that it's still a Steinway "design" and not Renner ?

Presently Renner manufactures the action parts for the Hamburg pianos according to the designated specs of a Hamburg Steinway.
Again Renner USA Steinway parts are different than Renner made parts manufactured for the Hamburg Steinway.

I suggest that all enquiries regarding the specs of Steinway piano actions of any era...either NY or Hamburg be directed to those who actually know the answer...The Steinway factory in New York....or Hamburg if you are in Europe and your German is good enough.
There are those in these pages who have demonstrated that they are not fans of Steinway and Sons instruments, action designs and ethos....and use the developments taking place at both factories, on an on-going basis, to highlight 'faults' or 'failures', rather than as developments to improve the instruments in everyones interest.
I will not attribute a motive to those who dirty the water....

Just go to the source...it's that simple.

Peter,
I agree with your concern and your sentiment on this. Unfortunately, often the factory is reluctant to tell the whole truth on various topics. On others factories claim propriatory secrecy. Often it is only through exchanges as this that the truth comes out from a variety of sources.
I feel your concern that there are some on the forum who have other agendas from the truth.

Marty...thanks for the observations....

What about this??
Perhaps the factory errs on the side of caution because they have no clue as to the abilities of the enquirer....
A bit like calling up Ferrari and asking for the gap distance of the spark plugs...
"Oh, and while I'm on the phone...what kind of spark plugs do you use"...
"Oh, yes, I see...."
"And how, exactly, do you put them in"?

There are so many wannabe technicians out there...all with the idea that you just strap the stuff on and off you go...
NO NO NO...
You need to know what you are doing......
When folks don't know what they're doing you get New York pianos with German parts...
Like any good cook, they should just follow the recipe....but then you have to be a good cook....
Maybe cooking would be a more suitable occupation for many in these pages, don't you think?

To the cursory observer, the Hamburg arm is rounded. Nothing earth-shattering there.

I do not know the present status of the Hamburg Steinway. As Peter suggests, contact the manufacturer. Some data is proprietary, however.

Historically, in my view, it was the superior instrument. Very European in timbre. (If that's your cup of tea.)

Recently played a masterfully re-manufactured Hamburg. Only one word to describe it: Outstanding.

I hope that Steinway does not Americanize the Hamburg. What a loss that will be. Not that there is anything necessarily wrong with the NY instrument. It is, however, nice to have a different choice among fine grands on both sides of the Atlantic.

Good point; I don't see why there is any need to Americanize the instrument. I suppose it might save money, though.

Yes, unfortunately, sometimes it's all about the money. This economy doesn't help matters either.

Something that hasn't been mentioned are the differences in the hammers. As with the wippens, New York makes their own while Renner makes them for Hamburg to their specs. I would argue that they are an even bigger factor in the inherent differences between the two instruments.