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#1275359 - 09/26/09 01:57 AM You be the judge
MA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 302
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
If you were one of the judges who "are instructed not to reward a contestant who is struggling (however heroically) with a too-difficult piece" how would you rank them?

Nocturne in C# minor

Grande Valse brillante in A minor

Fantaisie-Impromptu in C# minor

Nocturne in E-flat


Edited by MA (09/26/09 02:10 AM)
Edit Reason: embed didn't work

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#1275362 - 09/26/09 02:24 AM Re: You be the judge [Re: MA]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
What is this? The Little Chinese Girl Piano Competition?
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1275363 - 09/26/09 02:49 AM Re: You be the judge [Re: keyboardklutz]
MA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 302
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
I think you can call it that, but some of the girls don't look like Chinese to me.

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#1275364 - 09/26/09 02:59 AM Re: You be the judge [Re: MA]
iampiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 30
Loc: SF bayarea
MA,

I was at this competition and I know who won and everything.
But are you going to judge and criticize these kids in this public forum? I really hope you got permission from these contestants and parents. I would not feel comfortable if you post my child's video in this way.

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#1275400 - 09/26/09 05:06 AM Re: You be the judge [Re: iampiano]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
iam is right. I think you should have got their parent's consent.
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1275518 - 09/26/09 10:52 AM Re: You be the judge [Re: keyboardklutz]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7418
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
This is kind of interesting, from the perspective of ethics and legalities. Was viewing the competition open to the public? Were restrictions placed on videoing the event? If not, I'm not so sure anyone has grounds to complain. Event organizers need to be comprehensive in stating NO RECORDING/VIDEO and no reproduction/use of any program material without written consent of the organization.

If I had to guess, I'd say this wasn't done and as there are no identifiers on the youtube videos except the implication that it might have taken place in the SF Bay Area, it may be a foul, but nothing more. By the way, nice Hamburg Steinway!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1275592 - 09/26/09 12:32 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: MA]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13818
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: MA
If you were one of the judges who "are instructed not to reward a contestant who is struggling (however heroically) with a too-difficult piece" how would you rank them?


First, I should say that I think that's an odd instruction. The only thing that matters to me when I'm judging is how enjoyable the music is. A person who plays the Fantasie-Impromptu might have an advantage over the Eb Major nocturne, but it's not because of the difficulty level, it's because there's a greater range of texture and technique in the Impromptu. Regardless, I don't think it's much of an issue in this competition, because none of the competitors seem to be playing anything that's "too difficult" for them. They each handle their repertoire very well.

Also, it's a bit odd putting 7 year olds in a competition with 9 year olds. Developmentally speaking, there's a HUGE difference between those two age groups.

For what it's worth, my personal ranking is:

Grande Valse Brillante in A minor
Fantasie-Impromptu
Nocturne in Eb Major
Nocturne in C# minor

My guess is that the actual results put the Fantasie-Impromptu first and Eb Major nocturne 2nd, but it just sorta depends on the judge's personal criteria. I hear some things in the Valse that are rather interesting, even though it's not as impressive a piece as the impromptu.

That being said, the big question in my mind is why are we being asked? I see a few possibilities:

1) Curiosity. If this is the case, then you have my ranking and are free to disagree or agree. That's the nature of competitions, nobody is ever happy with the results, and this is one of the reasons a lot of people dislike judging. It's also why I think a lot of pianists never post on internet forums - no matter what you say, you're going to catch a lot of disagreement and discontent.

2) Seeking Justification for the Actual Results. If you're looking for a poll to justify the results of the competition, then give up now. This isn't American Idol. Art is subjective, get used it.

3) Seeking to Refute the Actual Results. If you're looking for a poll to refute or invalidate the actual results of the competition, then give up now. This isn't American Idol. Art is subjective, get used to it.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1275635 - 09/26/09 01:56 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: keyboardklutz]
MA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 302
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Well said, John! It was open to public, and more than one spectator, parents or not, were video taping as the organizer didn't prohibit it.

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#1275637 - 09/26/09 02:01 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Kreisler]
MA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 302
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Just curious as I don't know any of the girls. Also want to find out if the judges might have favored more difficult pieces as I might enter my children in the future.

This was the 9 and under age group. That's why you see 7-8 yo competing against 9 yo.

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#1275725 - 09/26/09 05:31 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Kreisler]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5596
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Art is subjective, get used to it.


Well, there are also cases when the judges are completely STUPID and pick the WRONG winners, while giving the most deserving students NOTHING. Organizers of such events are responsible for hiring intelligent, fair, and disinterested judges with the highest artistic integrity. Judges with ulterior motives need to be removed from future competitions. Furthermore, judges who write condescending, scathing, and ridiculous comments should also be removed from future competitions.

Art is subjective, but in classical music there are clear standards of taste and objective "correctness." It's not that difficult to discern good playing from bad playing. The difficulty lies in discerning "shades" or "levels" of good playing.

I'll take a look at the videos...
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#1275735 - 09/26/09 05:51 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: AZNpiano]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5596
Loc: Orange County, CA
Interesting videos.

I don't think the public forum is a good place to discuss these videos, so I will withhold my thoughts.

There are similar competitions in SoCal, and most of them don't prohibit videotaping of any kind. But to me it does seem wrong to post them without the kids' parents' permission.
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#1275778 - 09/26/09 07:33 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: AZNpiano]
iampiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 30
Loc: SF bayarea
John and MA,

OK. This competition was open to public and I don't recall they prohibited recording. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am assuming this is recorded by one parent (MA herself?)and published to Youtube without anyone's permission. I know this organization very well and they did not record this for sure.

Probably, this is not legal issue but to me ethical one. This means anyone can videotape any child in any open recitals/competitions and publish it to public for critique?

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#1275783 - 09/26/09 07:48 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: iampiano]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7418
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: iampiano
Probably, this is not legal issue but to me ethical one. This means anyone can videotape any child in any open recitals/competitions and publish it to public for critique?


I raised the issue as a red flag to teachers. Public means public and what you do in public is public. If it were a private recital, then we'd be discussing different issues.

Actually, I'm happy this came up now, as I am co-chairing a recital in just 5 weeks, and videography and recording is always an issue. I will probably bring this to our chapter and tell them that unless they agree to have a printed and announced restriction on photography of one's own students, and no posting on open forums, etc., etc.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1275794 - 09/26/09 08:08 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Piano*Dad Offline
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Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10422
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
I too think it is inappropriate to videotape young people without their family's permission and then to post the results to the web.
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https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1275900 - 09/26/09 11:02 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Piano*Dad]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7418
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
I don't disagree with you, but that matters little. From what I see on the news, tv in general, and all over the internet, if you do it in public, you're probably being watched and it will be posted somewhere. Teachers need to be aware of this, and take steps to insure students' privacy.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1275943 - 09/27/09 01:18 AM Re: You be the judge [Re: MA]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: MA
Well said, John! It was open to public, and more than one spectator, parents or not, were video taping as the organizer didn't prohibit it.


I'd certainly like to know more about how these videos were made, and if permission from the kids parents were given, to both video them and post them on YouTube.

I have a daughter, and if anyone posted a video of her on YouTube - despite the fact that "the organizers didn't prohibit it" -I would go after them.

A little more information, please.

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#1276039 - 09/27/09 10:11 AM Re: You be the judge [Re: Phlebas]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7418
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Phlebas, what do you think the net result would be? Do you feel your case would win? Would it be a Pyrrhic victory? What if the court sided with the videographer/poster? Would you pull your daughter from public performances? How much money would you be willing to spend defending your child's right to privacy at a public event? Is there such a right?

I certainly don't know the answers to these questions, but we teachers better be aware that parents have strong feelings on these issues and with the ease of video recording, better take steps to protect ourselves from litigation.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1276056 - 09/27/09 10:51 AM Re: You be the judge [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13818
Loc: Iowa City, IA
The laws regarding the posting of video and pictures on the internet are extremely vague and confusing. I did some searching regarding release forms, public performance, etc., and there doesn't seem to be a clear answer. Furthermore, the laws change from state to state, so what's acceptable in California may not be in other states and vice versa.

Another thought I had - even the parents weren't told that the competition was being recorded, there are microphones dangling from the ceiling right in front of the piano and the camera was obviously a nice, high definition camera. How could they not have known?

In a way, I think it's very unfortunate that performances like these never get discussed. I posted my ranking hoping someone would agree or disagree, thus starting a discussion on what to listen for in competitions involving young pianists. Nobody seems interested. Is judging doomed to remain a mysterious, capriciously subjective activity. How does one choose judges? What makes one person a better judge than another? The way most judges are picked for things like these are by word of mouth. Pianists are deemed qualified if they are college faculty have a graduate degree in music, and yet no graduate program in piano I know of includes any instruction or study of the adjudication process.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1276062 - 09/27/09 10:57 AM Re: You be the judge [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10422
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
In most organizations (like churches, for instance), if the kids go on an outing sponsored by the organization and photos are taken of them that might be used anywhere in the organization's publicity, they ask for a release form to be signed granting permission for incidental usage of the child's photos. This suggests that the default position is that the family's privacy is primary and the photographer's use of images is secondary. I don't know if the analogy holds here, but I suspect these families signed no release forms permitting images to be used by other parties. In the absence of a signed release it is at least possible that unauthorized use of their children's images may be a violation of their privacy. The fact that the performance was pubic may or may not change this. If the sponsoring organization did NOT get a signed release from the family, that fact may be binding on others. In other words a videographer might legally have to obtain the permission of the organization (which already had the permission of the family) in order to make a video of the competition.
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Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1276066 - 09/27/09 11:11 AM Re: You be the judge [Re: Piano*Dad]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10422
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Kreisler,

If MA made the recordings using a nice camera, that does not at all suggest that the parents must have known she was doing it. Suppose the sponsoring organization itself was making a beautiful HD recording, and the parents knew, then the issue is whether or not the parents granted permission (or needed to grant permission) to the organization to use those images for public presentation. I suspect most parents would sign off on that because their interests and the organization's interests most likely are aligned. It's something else for some unknown person to record the performances and then to use them for whatever they like, all without permission. That person's interests and the families' interests may not at all be aligned.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1276075 - 09/27/09 11:34 AM Re: You be the judge [Re: Piano*Dad]
Dorrie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 438
This seems like an instance where something that is legal may also be just plain wrong.

I would be upset if a video of my daughter were posted without my knowledge, especially if done in this way (splicing each performance, posting to a messsage board, asking for feedback and re-judging).

I'm sure I would have signed the release, and I would not have been upset if the sponsoring organization had posted the recordings.

I doubt I would get an attorney, but if I could identify MA, I would certainly ask that it be removed. I might indicate to the sponsoring association that this had happened and express my displeasure.

These are little girls. What if the posting had lead to a dissecting of their performances in a public forum? Neither they nor their families asked for the critique.

Common decency would suggest removing the links.

Dorrie

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#1276126 - 09/27/09 01:32 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
Phlebas, what do you think the net result would be? Do you feel your case would win? Would it be a Pyrrhic victory? What if the court sided with the videographer/poster? Would you pull your daughter from public performances? How much money would you be willing to spend defending your child's right to privacy at a public event? Is there such a right?

I certainly don't know the answers to these questions, but we teachers better be aware that parents have strong feelings on these issues and with the ease of video recording, better take steps to protect ourselves from litigation.


I'm putting myself in the shoes of the parents of the kids in that competition.

I would go after anyone who put a video of my daughter on the internet without my permission. If I sign a release that the organization sponsoring a recital or competition could do so, that is fine, and I can live with it. Someone not aligned with the organization to video my daughter at that venue, and put the videos on YouTube is an outrage, and I wouldn't stand for it. I would find out who they are find out what my options are for coming after them legally.

Why would I pull my daughter from public performances? Some people think that in this age of Youtube, etc., that your life is 100% public as soon as you step outside your door. I don't believe that.

I have exceptionally strong feeling about this. Teachers need to definitely be aware that parents have strong feelings about this.

What right does some other parent have to video my daughter, and post it to an online forum asking "ok, who's better?"

I would really like the OP to come back here, and explain how these videos were done - who did them, etc..

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#1276178 - 09/27/09 03:26 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: MA]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: MA
If you were one of the judges who "are instructed not to reward a contestant who is struggling (however heroically) with a too-difficult piece" how would you rank them?

Nocturne in C# minor

Grande Valse brillante in A minor

Fantaisie-Impromptu in C# minor

Nocturne in E-flat


The second video is the Op. 17 No. 4 Mazurka.

Honestly don't see what the problem is since the performers are not named, unless the parents forbade the posting of these videos. After all, I don't think these videos could be construed as exploitative in a criminal sense, though perhaps in an ethical sense.

Also don't see why anyone needs to pass judgement on the relative merits of each performer, when they are so young. What's the point of this thread?

It's just not worth our time to dissect the performances of musicians who are not yet finished. Obviously each of these four young ladies has tremendous potential, but I think it best to leave critique/dissection to their individual teachers/teacher at this point. I agree that the links (and perhaps the videos) ought to be pulled.


Edited by Horowitzian (09/27/09 03:37 PM)
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1276208 - 09/27/09 04:19 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Horowitzian]
Gary001 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 201
Loc: UK
Quote:
What right does some other parent have to video my daughter, and post it to an online forum asking "ok, who's better?"


Parents should be allowed to film everyone taking part in a recital, school play, sporting event... however I do agree with you when it comes to posting on the internet, or for that matter inclusion in a TV program, news item, newspaper article that permission of each and every person should be sought. Not only because I feel that is the right thing to do, but because some of those taking part (both children and adults) may be at risk.

Any events where the organisers intend to film and distribute the event publically, (be it internet, tv or somthing similar) should have the participants permission before hand. At least that way, anyone who objects can decide whether to take part or not and organisers can decide whether to make an exception for specific cases.

I'd hate to not have the videos of school plays I took part in, even though they're often embarrasing wink

I wonder what the legal situation is with this though. I'd hope there are no laws stopping parents filming events their children take part in, but at the same time hope there's something that stops public distribution without prior permission whether the distribution is for commercial gain or not.

I do remember there been an law/exception when it comes to certain events where it is impracticle to get permission of everyone, for example spectators at a televised football game. So perhaps there are laws that cover this already?

Maybe that's something those of you that run recitals should look into for future events?

As for judging those involved in the competition, I agree with the others in this thread, other than to say the two I watched are clearly way ahead of me in their playing ability smile

Edit: Just done some googling on the legal aspects of this and it turned up an interesting blog post. I think event organisers do risk stigmatising parents who are guilty of nothing more than been good parents.

http://www.qwerf.com/?p=509

Quote:
There’s an older article on BBC news dealing with school plays/sports days entitled “Parents’ right to film children” - a government body actually advising schools NOT to stop parents filming their children, as long as it is for personal use.


I think that last sentance pretty much sums it up and sounds pretty sane to me.
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#1276240 - 09/27/09 05:42 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Gary001]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13818
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I think we scared MA off. frown
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1276244 - 09/27/09 05:48 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Horowitzian]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5976
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Horowitzian
The second video is the Op. 17 No. 4 Mazurka.
Huh? No it isn't, it's the waltz op.34 no.2.
(on my computer, anyway smile )
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1276300 - 09/27/09 08:35 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Gary001]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Gary001
Quote:
What right does some other parent have to video my daughter, and post it to an online forum asking "ok, who's better?"


Parents should be allowed to film everyone taking part in a recital, school play, sporting event... however I do agree with you when it comes to posting on the internet, or for that matter inclusion in a TV program, news item, newspaper article that permission of each and every person should be sought. Not only because I feel that is the right thing to do, but because some of those taking part (both children and adults) may be at risk.

Any events where the organisers intend to film and distribute the event publically, (be it internet, tv or somthing similar) should have the participants permission before hand. At least that way, anyone who objects can decide whether to take part or not and organisers can decide whether to make an exception for specific cases.

I'd hate to not have the videos of school plays I took part in, even though they're often embarrasing wink

I wonder what the legal situation is with this though. I'd hope there are no laws stopping parents filming events their children take part in, but at the same time hope there's something that stops public distribution without prior permission whether the distribution is for commercial gain or not.

I do remember there been an law/exception when it comes to certain events where it is impracticle to get permission of everyone, for example spectators at a televised football game. So perhaps there are laws that cover this already?

Maybe that's something those of you that run recitals should look into for future events?

As for judging those involved in the competition, I agree with the others in this thread, other than to say the two I watched are clearly way ahead of me in their playing ability smile

Edit: Just done some googling on the legal aspects of this and it turned up an interesting blog post. I think event organisers do risk stigmatising parents who are guilty of nothing more than been good parents.

http://www.qwerf.com/?p=509

Quote:
There’s an older article on BBC news dealing with school plays/sports days entitled “Parents’ right to film children” - a government body actually advising schools NOT to stop parents filming their children, as long as it is for personal use.


I think that last sentance pretty much sums it up and sounds pretty sane to me.


What was posted here in PW - a popular worldwide forum for piano dealers, teachers, performers, students, parents of students... - was not an example of a parent videoing other children in the same performance of their child. It was solo performances of the other children.

Everyone knows that parents can - and should be able to - video a group dance, school show, or other performance that includes other kids. That is fine, fair, no problem.
The problem starts when someone posts the videos on YOtube, and on an Internet forum.

Different scenarios are possible - as I view the videos:

1) The OP did the videos, and posted them on YouTube.

2) The organizers videoed the performers, sold/supplied the parents with dvd's of the entire competition, and the OP posted them on Youtube.

3) Some other third party videoed, and provided the OP with the dvd, which were then posted by the OP on YOuTube.

None of the above would be - IMO - appropriate.

I think we did scare away the OP, but he/she should answer some questions on how these videos were done, and posted.

btw, the article you linked does not seem to apply at all to the US, where this competition took place.


Edited by Phlebas (09/27/09 08:35 PM)

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#1276347 - 09/27/09 11:15 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Kreisler]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
I do not like the idea that someone's parent would post other young children's piano performance and rerun the competition again.

Those videos are out there forever now and might be embarrassing or annoying to someone - like the children themselves - or their parents - or their piano teachers.

If the competition organizers and judges object to the "after the event" discussion here in Piano World, that would be another faction heard from.

I think the people - students, teachers, parents - are the ones who should complain if they think poor judging occured. The adjudicator doesn't get invited next time. Sour grapes it seems.

I'm not the least big interested in looking at the videos since there is an obvious "hidden agenda".

And the instruction to not reward a student who is struggling with their piece is totally out of place. It is obvious when a piece is not up to par regardless of the difficulty level. Teachers and parents should not tax their children so heavily with a music performance that can self destruct. Musical integrity applies to the teacher - parent - and the student and the judges in my book.

I haven't had my students participate in chapter adjudications in a very long time because of patronizing comments from the adjudicators when the system allows so very little time for the student and adjudicator to hear the pieces and make quick comments. Adjudication does make sense to me once the student is approaching advanced levels of playing and if they are competition oriented or preparing as college music majors.

I have adjudicated for a chapter along with a group of other teachers at a festival for 5 years running. There were so many students participating that there were about 10 rooms judging at the same time. After some point, your hand starts cramping from writing so much, and you run out of energy, although you continue giving your full attention to greeting each performer and writing something congratulatory and pertinent.

During these same years, I adjudicated with 2 other teachers for the Washington State PTA Reflections Program in composition which was many hours of listening to tapes and viewing manuscripts that the students had written. Again, comments and discussion among the team of adjudicators, and your written notes about each student to guide you in the final decisions.

You are just trying to do your best when you are in that position to assign placement for awards. I used a number system to keep track of categories and ratings for each student. Thank goodness for that as once adjudication overload hits, it's hard to remember what occured. That's where video playbacks would be helpful for the final selections.

Long hours. Big effort.

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#1276360 - 09/27/09 11:49 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Betty Patnude]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7418
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Getting back to MA's question, and Kreisler's comments, my ranking would be almost the same, but as K said, I'd reverse the first two:

Fantasie-Impromptu
Grande Valse Brillante in A minor
Nocturne in Eb Major
Nocturne in C# minor

But in fairness, it was close.

Now, for the record, I don't judge, and probably never will. My tastes are too arcane and students/teachers wouldn't be happy with the results.

Also for the record, I'd be thrilled if any of my HS students would do as well as these four young ladies, who all played very commendably, with absolutely nothing to be ashamed of.

One other comment - for Americans - we are, apparently, the only country where stage crews/schools feel the need to use those ridiculous dollies for grand pianos. That's a dead giveaway that this was in the USA. The European grands, and I'm guessing the Asian brands as well, can be rolled quite easily on the rollers the pianos come with.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1276363 - 09/27/09 11:57 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: currawong]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: Horowitzian
The second video is the Op. 17 No. 4 Mazurka.
Huh? No it isn't, it's the waltz op.34 no.2.
(on my computer, anyway smile )


Oops, dang. I was listening to that recently and I must have mixed them up!! blush Thanks for the catch, currawong! smile
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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