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#1276469 - 09/28/09 07:46 AM Re: You be the judge [Re: Horowitzian]
Gary001 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 201
Loc: UK
Quote:
What was posted here in PW - a popular worldwide forum for piano dealers, teachers, performers, students, parents of students... - was not an example of a parent videoing other children in the same performance of their child. It was solo performances of the other children.


I fully agree with you about posting the recording in an online forum (or youtube for that matter) without permission. But the question really needs to be, was permission legally required? and if it was not required, organisers need to be aware of this and take steps to ensure it is.

Which is what John touched upon in his post and combined with your post gave me the impression that organisers of recitals might consider prohibiting all filming which would be a great loss imo. Rather than allowing filming for private viewing but not for public distribution without permission.

Please don't get me wrong, I agree with what you've said in regards to the OP, I just wanted to ensure that any organisers reading this thread realise how important videoing can be and do not over-react.

Quote:
btw, the article you linked does not seem to apply at all to the US, where this competition took place.


Just reread my post and it does sound like I gave the wrong impression, I found the article whilst googling the "legal aspects", but it wasn't the legal parts of the article that made me post. It was just a good demonstration of how parents can be unfairly demonised and to show that that even governments (in this case the UK) believe it's important for parents to be allowed to film. I should have made that clearer.
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#1276483 - 09/28/09 08:35 AM Re: You be the judge [Re: Gary001]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
[quote=Gary001
Just reread my post and it does sound like I gave the wrong impression, I found the article whilst googling the "legal aspects", but it wasn't the legal parts of the article that made me post. It was just a good demonstration of how parents can be unfairly demonised and to show that that even governments (in this case the UK) believe it's important for parents to be allowed to film. I should have made that clearer. [/quote]

You're right. Parents can be unfairly demonised. It would be a shame if they were not allowed to video their children performing. I just think it's strange to video other kids in a solo performance venue like a piano recital or competition.

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#1276544 - 09/28/09 11:08 AM Re: You be the judge [Re: Phlebas]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1439
Loc: Australia
Might it be better, if the organisers of such events, placed a blanket ban on audience members videoing the performances, and instead, provided an 'official' video, which members of the audience could purchase, after the event?

The official video could then be supplied, on the proviso that it is for personal use only, and that it may not be shown publicly, or transmitted via any electronic means, including the Internet, without the express, or written permission of the participants involved.

It seems to me that this would cover all the angles.
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#1276580 - 09/28/09 12:49 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: R0B]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13797
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Personally, I think recording should never be allowed in competitions for kids under the age of 18. The potential for complaint and abuse is far too likely. If parents want videos of their children, studio recitals can always fill that need.

I'm in charge of a competition next month, and there will be NO recording. I'm not even going to ask people's opinions, I'm just going to make an executive decision and ban the devices from the venue altogether. laugh
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1276582 - 09/28/09 12:52 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Phlebas]
MA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 302
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted By: Phlebas
I'm putting myself in the shoes of the parents of the kids in that competition.


Do you have a daughter? Did you send her to a public competition? Did she win a prize? Did her performance got posted on YouTube?

If your answer is No to any of these questions, then the shoes ain't fit.

On the otherhand, I can answer Yes to all these questions. If I didn't like it, I'd PM the OP and ASK her to remove the video. I wouldn't THREATEN her in any way because the law is on her side. Failing that, I'd contact YouTube and request the video be removed, but YouTube might tell me that the poster of the video has not violated its policy, and she has the right to post the video under The Constitutions.

Then again, why wouldn't I like my daughter's winning performance being posted on YouTube? Because I don't want her to be judged by people I don't know? But wait, didn't I already send her to this public competition judged by people I didn't know?

In fact, I'd be pround to see my daughter's video here and appreciate feedbacks from other experts whether or not she got the first prize. I'd pass them on to her teacher, too.

Originally Posted By: Phlebas
I would go after anyone who put a video of my daughter on the internet without my permission. If I sign a release that the organization sponsoring a recital or competition could do so, that is fine, and I can live with it. Someone not aligned with the organization to video my daughter at that venue, and put the videos on YouTube is an outrage, and I wouldn't stand for it. I would find out who they are find out what my options are for coming after them legally.


I'd doubt any lawyer would take your case, except perhaps those who are out of jobs/clients. Then you'd better be parepared to pay your defendant's attorney's fee when the court throw out your frivilous lawsuit.

Originally Posted By: Phlebas
Why would I pull my daughter from public performances? Some people think that in this age of Youtube, etc., that your life is 100% public as soon as you step outside your door. I don't believe that.


Of course you wouldn't if you "believe" the word "public" means x% public + y% private. As Clinton told the grand jury, "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

Originally Posted By: Phlebas
I have exceptionally strong feeling about this. Teachers need to definitely be aware that parents have strong feelings about this.


More correctly, SOME parents have strong feelings about this whereas other parents are on the opposite side.

Originally Posted By: Phlebas
What right does some other parent have to video my daughter, and post it to an online forum asking "ok, who's better?".


The purpose of this topic is rather "Judge the judging" than " Judge the kids".

Originally Posted By: Phlebas
I would really like the OP to come back here, and explain how these videos were done - who did them, etc..


Are you the KGB?

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#1276588 - 09/28/09 01:20 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: MA]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13797
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: MA
Originally Posted By: Phlebas
I'm putting myself in the shoes of the parents of the kids in that competition.


Do you have a daughter? Did you send her to a public competition? Did she win a prize? Did her performance got posted on YouTube?

If your answer is No to any of these questions, then the shoes ain't fit.

On the otherhand, I can answer Yes to all these questions


Not in this particular competition, though. On page one of this thread, you told us that you didn't know any of the competitors.

If you didn't record the competitors, then we're not criticizing you. If you are the person who posted the videos on YouTube, then you recorded other people's children and haven't said whether or not you had their permission or blessing.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1276647 - 09/28/09 02:49 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Kreisler]
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1789
Loc: Central TX
Interesting subject.

Originally Posted By: MA
Do you have a daughter? Did you send her to a public competition? Did she win a prize? Did her performance got posted on YouTube?


I meet, almost, all the criteria above so I guess I'm allowed to put my 2 pence in.

I just recently placed a few recordings of my daughters chamber group performances on utoob. Before I did so, I got permission from the parents of the other members. The replies to my requests for permission ranged from gratitude to amazement that I would even think I needed to ask, in all cases permission was granted. I wanted to take this approach because I place value in the desires of the other parents and I fully understand that some may not want their kiddos on youtube, I'm ok with that.

From a "legal" standpoint (and IANAL) I would think the biggest thing would be from a copyright standpoint (which would be consistent from state to state). If you record someone performing, they are the copyright holder of that performance, and unless they signed their rights over to the organization holding the performance, recording of the performance and subsequent posting on utube could be the basis for a copyright violation. Note that explicit permission needs to be granted, not the other way around (i.e. if nothing is specifically mentioned then you can assume that you don't have permission). I'm not as familiar with things like personal releases.

So as has been mentioned, I do think that both parents and teachers need to be aware that we are in this brave new world both legally and ethically with regards to posting someone else's kids videos on the web. If you're a parent, and are concerned about this occurring, then you need to query event organizers about the issue and get clarification on what is/isn't allowed. If the parent is uncomfortable with the answer, then they are obviously free to not participate. Ditto with teachers, they can plan for this for events they control (e.g. recitals) and be facilitators by making themselves knowledgeable about the laws and practicalities of these scenarios and preparing students/parents appropriately.

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#1276684 - 09/28/09 04:02 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: bitWrangler]
iampiano Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 30
Loc: SF bayarea
MA,

The reason I was at this competition was that my son competed. Actually, we posted his winners recital video on youtube.

However, if his video was posted in the way you did, I would feel very violated.
Especially, those young girls are just starting competitions. They are not exposed to youtube or facebook unlike my son. Other parents reaction in this thread is totally normal.

You say if they don't like videos, just ask you to remove. But you rather did it anonymously. The chances are they don't even realize their videos are on the web. Once they are public, anyone can link them anywhere. Do you feel OK if this happens to your daughter without your knowledge?
Also, if you are considering sending your daughter to this competition, I am afraid this research you are trying to conduct will do any good. Why do you want to criticize judges? You never know if you can always stay anonymous. It's a very small community.

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#1276707 - 09/28/09 04:41 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: iampiano]
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5510
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: iampiano
Why do you want to criticize judges?


--playing the devil's advocate here--

Becuase some judges are just plain BAD. I've witnessed and worked with judges who have problems. Some are just inept. Some are brilliant musicians, but they have ulterior motives. And some have hidden agendas.

This is really nothing new. But, with better management and preparation on the part of the event organizers, a lot of these problems can be averted.
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#1276726 - 09/28/09 05:16 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: AZNpiano]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17786
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
I think the legality/morality of recording and uploading the videos depends entirely on whether a recital would be considered a "public" event. To give an analogy, in the regulations governing research with human participants, a distinction is made between observing behavior in public settings (where, with few exceptions, no informed consent is required) vs. that occurring in settings where the individual could reasonably expect privacy.

I do think there will be a range of reactions from parents. I personally wouldn't mind at all for videos of my children to be made in public settings. Actually, the only thing that ever irritates me is when the parent in front of me stands up to do the videotaping and blocks my view. laugh
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My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1276734 - 09/28/09 05:25 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: AZNpiano]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10385
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Originally Posted By: MA
Do you have a daughter? Did you send her to a public competition? Did she win a prize? Did her performance got posted on YouTube?

If your answer is No to any of these questions, then the shoes ain't fit.


Whether or not Kriesler has a daughter who has experienced these things is quite irrelevant to the question of whether or not the shoes fit (or ain't). Any normal person can 'put themselves in another's shoes' by imagining their circumstances. Many of us who have tried to do so have expressed to you how uncomfortable we would be if a stranger took videos of our children and posted them on the web without our permission. You may ignore these arguments and expressions of our feelings as you choose. And each of us will evaluate you by what you express.
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Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1276739 - 09/28/09 05:31 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: MA]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: MA
Originally Posted By: Phlebas
I'm putting myself in the shoes of the parents of the kids in that competition.


Do you have a daughter? Did you send her to a public competition? Did she win a prize? Did her performance got posted on YouTube?

If your answer is No to any of these questions, then the shoes ain't fit.

On the otherhand, I can answer Yes to all these questions. If I didn't like it, I'd PM the OP and ASK her to remove the video. I wouldn't THREATEN her in any way because the law is on her side. Failing that, I'd contact YouTube and request the video be removed, but YouTube might tell me that the poster of the video has not violated its policy, and she has the right to post the video under The Constitutions.

Then again, why wouldn't I like my daughter's winning performance being posted on YouTube? Because I don't want her to be judged by people I don't know? But wait, didn't I already send her to this public competition judged by people I didn't know?

In fact, I'd be pround to see my daughter's video here and appreciate feedbacks from other experts whether or not she got the first prize. I'd pass them on to her teacher, too.

Originally Posted By: Phlebas
I would go after anyone who put a video of my daughter on the internet without my permission. If I sign a release that the organization sponsoring a recital or competition could do so, that is fine, and I can live with it. Someone not aligned with the organization to video my daughter at that venue, and put the videos on YouTube is an outrage, and I wouldn't stand for it. I would find out who they are find out what my options are for coming after them legally.


I'd doubt any lawyer would take your case, except perhaps those who are out of jobs/clients. Then you'd better be parepared to pay your defendant's attorney's fee when the court throw out your frivilous lawsuit.

Originally Posted By: Phlebas
Why would I pull my daughter from public performances? Some people think that in this age of Youtube, etc., that your life is 100% public as soon as you step outside your door. I don't believe that.


Of course you wouldn't if you "believe" the word "public" means x% public + y% private. As Clinton told the grand jury, "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

Originally Posted By: Phlebas
I have exceptionally strong feeling about this. Teachers need to definitely be aware that parents have strong feelings about this.


More correctly, SOME parents have strong feelings about this whereas other parents are on the opposite side.

Originally Posted By: Phlebas
What right does some other parent have to video my daughter, and post it to an online forum asking "ok, who's better?".


The purpose of this topic is rather "Judge the judging" than " Judge the kids".

Originally Posted By: Phlebas
I would really like the OP to come back here, and explain how these videos were done - who did them, etc..


Are you the KGB?


I asked first. I'll repeat: How did the videos get on YouTube, and posted on PW, and with who's permission?

If you simply posted them on a whim - with no permissions from the parents - to get PW posters to rate them, then I have a very low opinion of what you did.

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#1276742 - 09/28/09 05:36 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: iampiano]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: iampiano
MA,

The reason I was at this competition was that my son competed. Actually, we posted his winners recital video on youtube.

However, if his video was posted in the way you did, I would feel very violated.
Especially, those young girls are just starting competitions. They are not exposed to youtube or facebook unlike my son. Other parents reaction in this thread is totally normal.

You say if they don't like videos, just ask you to remove. But you rather did it anonymously. The chances are they don't even realize their videos are on the web. Once they are public, anyone can link them anywhere. Do you feel OK if this happens to your daughter without your knowledge?
Also, if you are considering sending your daughter to this competition, I am afraid this research you are trying to conduct will do any good. Why do you want to criticize judges? You never know if you can always stay anonymous. It's a very small community.


If you don't mind my asking, what was the competition?

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#1276747 - 09/28/09 05:41 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Monica K.]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Monica K.
I think the legality/morality of recording and uploading the videos depends entirely on whether a recital would be considered a "public" event. To give an analogy, in the regulations governing research with human participants, a distinction is made between observing behavior in public settings (where, with few exceptions, no informed consent is required) vs. that occurring in settings where the individual could reasonably expect privacy.

I do think there will be a range of reactions from parents. I personally wouldn't mind at all for videos of my children to be made in public settings. Actually, the only thing that ever irritates me is when the parent in front of me stands up to do the videotaping and blocks my view. laugh



Monica,

The making of the video is not the entire issue. Making a video of a public performance should be fine - although it's a little weird to video other kids doing solo stuff. That's never happened at a competition or recital my daughter's played at.

The main issue is taking the video of someone else's children, and posting them on YouTube without the permission of the parents, and further, starting a thread asking people to rate them on a very populat piano forum. That is wrong.

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#1276769 - 09/28/09 06:11 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Phlebas]
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5510
Loc: Orange County, CA
While I can certainly appreciate MA's intent--some judges should NOT be judging at all--I disagree with the way the videos are produced and presented. Now I can see why some organizations forbid videotaping of performances, of any kind. I am also in the capacity of making some organizational decisions, and I think I should push for some rule changes to curtail videotaping (and posting) of student performances other than that of a parent's own kids.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1276820 - 09/28/09 07:19 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: AZNpiano]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7393
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
One of our nemesis are sports programs, but we can sometimes learn from them. Just trying to correlate a bit here, how would you feel as a parent if your child was in a public ball game and video of that game were posted on youtube? Would you feel the same or differently? Why? What about a swim meet? Is that the same as soccer or football or somehow different? How about a wrestling match? Would you feel the same way? Do athletes have to sign a privacy waiver form of some kind, or is it just expected that they'll be on tv and the web?

Likewise, our youth symphony. We occasionally put concerts up on public access tv. In the past, we haven't had the students/parents sign waivers. Should we do this for the future? We've never had complaints, except when we don't do it often enough.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1276833 - 09/28/09 07:33 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Phlebas]
iampiano Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 30
Loc: SF bayarea
The 14th Annual San Francisco Chopin Competition for Young Pianists (http://chopinsf.org/competition.html) The website has not been updated last competitions' result, yet.

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#1276841 - 09/28/09 07:42 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
A big difference is that it's a sport where team cooperation is needed and the outcome is owned by all members of the team for their individual and collective performances. Team enthusiasm with the group of cheerleaders and parents make team sports a recreation and entertainment genre.

In a piano competition the soloist is the primary object from the moment they enter the stage area and cross to the piano until they take their bow and leave the area. The arena is one of quiet.

Depending on the experience of the videographer, the camera might zoom in for close-ups which witness what the performer is experiencing as he or she plays. It is more than a duplication of the composer's piece and the intended performance of it to a established standard, it is an exposure of the student's mind and body working together with musical intelligence. The performer is exposed forever for their individual natural talents and their acquired skills at the age they are, in the length of study there are at, on this particular day. It can go well, it can go badly.

Even if the student, teacher and parent were absolutely proud of the performance posting it on YouTube is something that they may regret doing in the future. YouTube is full of sorely lacking amateurs as well as promising young talent and accomplish musicians. In situations like this, if one does develop a career in years to come, someone is always going to remember you when you "slipped and split your eyebrow on the pavement" so to speak.

I think our students are deserving of privacy. Don't be hasty to show the world. And, no one should post another student's video for the purpose of using it for competetive criticism about other competitors.

In sports coaches have much more clout with their players than we do with our students. So comparing that issue to teachers influence would be something of interest, too.

Team sports over arts education is not comparable in my mind. However, martial arts to me are an art form.

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#1276865 - 09/28/09 08:25 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Betty Patnude]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7393
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Okay, Betty, since you're being ornery today, how about diving?

What I'm trying to do, and I think many get it, is thinking through this issue. We here in the far west have a huge number of Asian students who come from different cultures. Parents are making videos even when we say, "don't." Who knows what happens to them. This is a very murky area and needs careful discussion.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1276866 - 09/28/09 08:27 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
One of our nemesis are sports programs, but we can sometimes learn from them. Just trying to correlate a bit here, how would you feel as a parent if your child was in a public ball game and video of that game were posted on youtube? Would you feel the same or differently? Why? What about a swim meet? Is that the same as soccer or football or somehow different? How about a wrestling match? Would you feel the same way? Do athletes have to sign a privacy waiver form of some kind, or is it just expected that they'll be on tv and the web?

Likewise, our youth symphony. We occasionally put concerts up on public access tv. In the past, we haven't had the students/parents sign waivers. Should we do this for the future? We've never had complaints, except when we don't do it often enough.


Again, it's not the act of videoing a team sport, or a youth symphony. It's the purposeful posting of videos of children to a forum to ask the question "how would you rank them?".

Some of this is a grey area. To do what the OP did - pending an answer to the numerous requests for her to explain herself - is wrong.

As far as waivers of your recitals go, I don't think that's necessary. I would make it clear that any video is for personal use.

Common sense and propriety dictate that you do not publicly display someone else's child for all the world to see without the parents' permission. Unfortunately, common sense cannot be relied on - as demonstrated by the OP.


Edited by Phlebas (09/28/09 08:29 PM)

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#1276877 - 09/28/09 08:36 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Phlebas]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10385
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Originally Posted By: Phlebas
Common sense and propriety dictate that you do not publicly display someone else's child for all the world to see without the parents' permission. Unfortunately, common sense cannot be relied on - as demonstrated by the OP.


This is my view as well.

Technology allows people to do things today that were impossible in the past, so the frequency of situations of this sort is bound to increase.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1276882 - 09/28/09 08:41 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Piano*Dad]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10385
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
In fairness, the third estate has long violated this notion.

The following is an image of war that anyone of a certain age will recognize instantly:




Yet I doubt that MA's posting of these videos rises to a freedom of the press issue or to a public right to know issue. Hence the common sense critique still holds.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1276938 - 09/28/09 09:55 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Phlebas]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13797
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Just curious, but why are we assuming MA was the one who posted the videos on YouTube?

I know it seems like that's the case, but we could all be making a huge mistake. On first glance, I didn't associate MA with the channel she linked. Or did I miss something?
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1276943 - 09/28/09 10:03 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Phlebas]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7393
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
I just came across this a propos our discussion.
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#1276949 - 09/28/09 10:11 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Kreisler]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10385
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Just curious, but why are we assuming MA was the one who posted the videos on YouTube?

I know it seems like that's the case, but we could all be making a huge mistake. On first glance, I didn't associate MA with the channel she linked. Or did I miss something?


Quite true. We have presumed that MA recorded the videos and then posted them. S(he) has never disabused us of this assumption so it became the working hypothesis. But whoever posted them, the issues remain as long as parental consent was not sought and obtained.
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#1276952 - 09/28/09 10:18 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Piano*Dad]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
MA,

Have you dropped away from the topic?

It would be helpful if you verified whether you had posted the videos or not. And, have we missed something that you think is important for us to know?

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#1276966 - 09/28/09 10:50 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Kreisler]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Just curious, but why are we assuming MA was the one who posted the videos on YouTube?

I know it seems like that's the case, but we could all be making a huge mistake. On first glance, I didn't associate MA with the channel she linked. Or did I miss something?


I don't know, Kreisler. A Youtube channel was created on Sept. 25th with 4 videos posted on that channel. Very early the next morning a thread was posted here with those same 4 videos asking us to rank them. It didn't pass the sniff test with me from the beginning.

My guess is the OP posted them on YouTube, but I'm not assuming that's the case. That's why I asked the OP to elaborate on what was going on. She's been asked repeatedly, and has yet to answer.

What happens when you take a video - even a nice performance, as all 4 were - which were done in a controlled setting, and then post them on YouTube for all the world to see, is you can get unpleasant consequences. Something their parents and the child should be proud of gets a comment like "What is this? The Little Chinese Girl Piano Competition?" - which was what kbk said in the thread. So, by posting the video on the internet, someone on the other side of the world has an opportunity to take a proud moment someone had in their own town, and say something mean about it. Much worse can happen on YouTube in terms of comments.

That's why when people do knobheaded things - like the OP did in starting this thread - they should be called on it.

So, MA, come back and tell us more about this.


Edited by Phlebas (09/28/09 10:52 PM)

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#1276976 - 09/28/09 11:11 PM Re: You be the judge [Re: Phlebas]
iampiano Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 30
Loc: SF bayarea
I don't want to sound mean but does it matter who recorded these videos and posted them on youtube? It could me MA herself, her family or friend? The only thing that is certain is that The SF Chopin foundation did not record these. I thought she already admitted that these videos were taken since the competition was public and published on youtube without family's permission.

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#1277039 - 09/29/09 02:39 AM Re: You be the judge [Re: iampiano]
MA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 302
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted By: iampiano
The reason I was at this competition was that my son competed. Actually, we posted his winners recital video on youtube.


Congratulations!

Originally Posted By: iampiano
Do you feel OK if this happens to your daughter without your knowledge?


I thought I already said yes. In fact, I'd be proud and thank the person for doing it.

Originally Posted By: iampiano
Why do you want to criticize judges?


Judging the judging does not mean criticizing the judges. If your son had not won, would you have felt differently about judging the judges?

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#1277044 - 09/29/09 03:09 AM Re: You be the judge [Re: Piano*Dad]
MA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 302
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Originally Posted By: MA
Do you have a daughter? Did you send her to a public competition? Did she win a prize? Did her performance got posted on YouTube?

If your answer is No to any of these questions, then the shoes ain't fit.


Whether or not Kriesler has a daughter who has experienced these things is quite irrelevant to the question of whether or not the shoes fit (or ain't).


My comment wasn't even directed at Kriesler, so what's your point?

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