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#1275760 - 09/26/09 07:06 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: MiM]
wj3 Offline
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Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 313
Loc: Salem, Or
Welcome Happyhah. Lots of help and support here....
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wj3

2010 Roland KR-115m
Alfreds AIO Level 2:
Working on (Simply Joplin) Solace, Peacherine Rag, A Breeze from Alabama:, (Burgmuller) Progres, Limpid stream.




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#1276106 - 09/27/09 12:55 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: wj3]
bobjr Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 99
Theme from SOLACE anyone able to follow along with the notes?

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#1276123 - 09/27/09 01:25 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: bobjr]
MiM Offline
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Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 543
Loc: Pennsylvania
bobjr, not sure what exactly you're asking. How to play it or how to read some of the notes?
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#1276228 - 09/27/09 05:16 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: MiM]
bobjr Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 99
Well... I'm having a hard time following along while i play because of all the jumping around, especially at the end of the song. So I find myself having to look at the keys instead of the notes, matter of fact this was giving me so much trouble I seem to have the whole song memorized from playing it so much, so when i try to read the notes and play at the same time, i find it hard to follow along with the notes.

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#1276229 - 09/27/09 05:21 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: bobjr]
MiM Offline
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Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 543
Loc: Pennsylvania
Unless you are trying to master sight reading, you should play it in a memorized fashion. When was the last time you saw a concert pianist read from sheet?
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#1276331 - 09/27/09 10:19 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: MiM]
bobjr Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 99
on to "La Bamba" it is then. I guess I will just have to master sight reading after i learn how to play smile

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#1276343 - 09/27/09 10:55 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: bobjr]
MiM Offline
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Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 543
Loc: Pennsylvania
Good luck with La Bamba! A small advice from me is to go through it and spend some time with it, but if you find it's taking too long, you're not alone, and you should move on. For me, it is so far the hardest piece to get to record quickly, that's my measure of difficulty: If you can record it fast, it is easy.

Here's the Hokey Pokey... That wasn't so easy but reasonable tired
The Hokey Pokey
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#1276638 - 09/28/09 02:38 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: MiM]
Waltz Offline
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Registered: 01/09/09
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Loc: Massachusetts
Nice job with Hokey Pokey MIM smile

For those that were interested in Clementi's 36/1, I have posted a recording of myself playing the first movement in the Sept. piano bar. Check it out and let me know what you think,

Sincerely,
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#1276693 - 09/28/09 04:23 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: Waltz]
MiM Offline
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Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 543
Loc: Pennsylvania
Waltz, take this as a compliment....this is the first time I see you play with good "musicality". There is feeling and correct interpretation of the piece, and your fingers looked relaxed. Good job!

I really envy all of you folks upstairs for the good pieces you work on. I can't wait to get into real music post Book 2.
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#1276700 - 09/28/09 04:27 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: MiM]
MiM Offline
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Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 543
Loc: Pennsylvania
Waltz, why did you mean by 10 months playing the piano? Did you really finish Book 1 and 2 in less than 10 months?
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#1276751 - 09/28/09 05:48 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: MiM]
Waltz Offline
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Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 707
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Music_in_Me
Waltz, why did you mean by 10 months playing the piano? Did you really finish Book 1 and 2 in less than 10 months?

MiM,

Thanks for the compliment. Yes, I began playing piano last November and quickly became obsessed. I finished book 1 in 7 weeks and book 2 in about 7 months.
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#1276765 - 09/28/09 06:06 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: Mark...]
happykah Offline
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Registered: 09/20/09
Posts: 23
Loc: SE USA
Fast work Waltz, to get so much done in such a short time. I am feeling a little obsessed myself right now. Any spare moments find me at the piano. I come to the forums to keep from driving the dc completely nuts. They've heard Guantanamera and Overture all they can stand for today... crazy But, hey, I've nearly got 'em down. I do play others that I'm trying to recover from the old days, but Alfred's gets top priority.
Thanks for the warm welcome all!
_________________________
What I'm currently working on...
First Lessons in Bach
Masterwork's Classics
Sacred Silhouettes



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#1276772 - 09/28/09 06:15 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: Waltz]
MiM Offline
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Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 543
Loc: Pennsylvania
If you don't mind, I have a few nosy questions. What other kind of musical learning did you do before, may be playing another instrument? or may be just messing around with piano or keyboard without any formal lessons, etc? When you say you finished book 1, did you do all the pieces, and did you bring them all to recording quality?

I know there are very smart people out there, but I think it takes a special kind of intelligence to learn music at this fast pace.
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#1276777 - 09/28/09 06:17 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: Waltz]
bobjr Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 99
Actually I do have 1 more question about SOLACE if you don't mind. The song is 4/4 so you look at the left hand and the pieces of the broken cord are 1/4 note each that is fine. But the right hand you got 4 1/8 notes and hold for another 1/8 note then 1/4 then 1/8 again. If you look at the way they line up you will see that after the 3rd 1/8 note you have the 2nd 1/4 note on the right hand lining up. for the 3rd part of the broken chord you would be at the 3rd 1/4 note, but on the top you would be at 5/8ths if you play it after you hold down for the additional 8th. Am I missing something here? Should I just be playing things as I see them or should i be calculating the count for the top and bottom and playing in order of the notes?

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#1276795 - 09/28/09 06:43 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: bobjr]
MiM Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 543
Loc: Pennsylvania
I think you are analyzing it the correct way, as you should. It is called ragtime music because of this ragged style.

The first LH quarter beat occurs simultaneously with the first RH 1/8th note. Because the quarter notes are to be played detached, you may want to think of each LH quarter note as a 1/8th note. So, the second 1/8th note is hit while your LH finger is up in the air.

If you follow this analysis, you will see that the 3rd quarter note you are asking about is hit while your RH 4th finger is pressing on the 4th note (the E).

You should also analyze it assuming the quarter notes are played in full, not detached.
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#1276809 - 09/28/09 07:03 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: MiM]
Waltz Offline
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Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 707
Loc: Massachusetts
MiM,

No problem. If you've watched my Alfred's 2 youtube videos, that is more or less the extent to which I've learned every piece in Alfred's 1, Alfred's 2, and currently am doing in Alfred's 3. I did not skip any part of either book; I did all the pieces and other exercises they indicated. As you implied (and did so correctly), I do not spend much time making each piece "beautiful" musically. Yet, I do play them correctly. I try to play them exactly as written, and do best to add dynamics. I like to focus my time learning techniques involved in playing the pieces as opposed to enjoying myself with musicality. That will happen in the future, when I start to build repertoire.
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#1276813 - 09/28/09 07:05 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: Waltz]
Waltz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 707
Loc: Massachusetts
Oh, I forgot the first questions; silly me smile

No, I have not played other instruments. I would consider this my first time learning piano. Although at UVa I did have a fellow undergraduate teach me some piano when I was 19; but, being candid, I made zero progress then.
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#1276816 - 09/28/09 07:07 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: MiM]
Waltz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 707
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Music_in_Me

I know there are very smart people out there, but I think it takes a special kind of intelligence to learn music at this fast pace.


If that be so, you certainly have it! smile
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#1276818 - 09/28/09 07:10 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: Waltz]
bobjr Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 99
I'm still a little confused ,For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jSgJcq5Gn0
in this video pianonoob seems to be hitting the 3rd 1/8 note with the 2nd 1/4 note from the left hand and it sounds correct. Is he playing this correctly ? It sounds good to me.

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#1276836 - 09/28/09 07:36 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: bobjr]
MiM Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 543
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: bobjr
I'm still a little confused ,For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jSgJcq5Gn0
in this video pianonoob seems to be hitting the 3rd 1/8 note with the 2nd 1/4 note from the left hand and it sounds correct. Is he
playing this correctly ? It sounds good to me.


That's right, you hit the 3rd 1/8th note together with the 2nd 1/4 note. That's consistent with the above and that's how it should sound. Then you hit the 3rd 1/4 note, while your RH finger 4 is still on E. Finally, you hit the 4th 1/4 note while your RH finger 3 is on D#.
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#1276845 - 09/28/09 07:46 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: MiM]
bobjr Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 99
Thanks, so I guess I have been playing it correctly. I just wanted to make sure I understand exactly what is going on. I know we talked about this song the other day, but I woke up this morning in a panic thinking that I had been playing it all wrong the whole time. I guess I must have had a bad dream.

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#1276849 - 09/28/09 07:54 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: bobjr]
MiM Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 543
Loc: Pennsylvania
Incidentally, out of all the recordings I did, Solace is the only one with any glaring mistakes, two of them to be exact! Ouch. One is that out of haste I skipped the first two separate notes of the piece on my final recording. The second one is that I gave up on the ending, and just put my own ending in there. I will do a better recording hopefully soon.
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#1276857 - 09/28/09 08:10 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: MiM]
bobjr Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 99
Yea the ending took a while to be able to play smoothly, I'm glad i stuck with it because i actually like the song now.. One day I will probably try to play the complete Scott Joplin pieces. I guess now I will move on to "La Bamba", I have toyed with it a little and I don't find it to be as hard as SOLACE, but we will see what happens in a few days. Thanks for you help Music_in_me

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#1276995 - 09/29/09 12:00 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: bobjr]
MiM Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 543
Loc: Pennsylvania
See that's why I think discussions like these are very important. Your question got me asking about the relationship between the note time duration and its detached (or staccato) nature.

In that same piece, how would it sound if the detached 1/4 notes were 1/8 notes? What does it really mean to hit a note staccato? My intuition would say that you hold a detached quarter note to its full time value, but then you just chop off the very end of it. So, in this piece, you would keep your left finger on the first 1/4 note as you play the second 1/8 not with your RH, then give a sudden lift to your LH finger. But that doesn't seem to be done, as far as I can tell, in any of the examples of this piece that I've heard.

Could any of you ask your teacher on this?

This quick reference here seems to say that there is no exact rule for this:
http://neilhawes.com/sstheory/theory43.htm
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#1277025 - 09/29/09 01:58 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: MiM]
bobjr Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 99
Yea, now you are starting to see what I mean. At one point someone told me that if the notes line up then they are to be played simultaneously, the only example i can think of is that. One "track" is playing out of sync with the other "track" by about 1/8 of a beat, because if you actually add up the notes one hand is further along in the song than the other. If we take SOLACE for example during the ending you have a C with the 5th finger on the left hand after holding a C with your right thumb for 1/8. There is a temptation to play these notes together but if you look at the way they line up it seems they should be coming in slightly out of sync with each other because you have to hold it. Then you have the 3rd finger on the A followed by the rest of the cord 1/8 after that? If you play all these together you get an ending that sounds right but if you look at other parts in the song with the same setup it only sounds good if you leave room for the 1/8 delay, so it would seem in the ending you have to do the same.So yea, this song really got me thinking and re-evaluating the way I been playing piano. I can "play" the song, but how can i really be sure that I'm not off by 1/8 of a beat.. maybe we are over thinking this, but I would be curious to hear from a teacher also. I been basically just using the books by myself and listening to the CD plus some youtube clips.

Hope this wasn't too confusing.

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#1277043 - 09/29/09 03:09 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: bobjr]
MiM Offline
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Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 543
Loc: Pennsylvania
Take a listen to mine and see if that's what you expect. The beats have to follow the LH accurately... that is, there are 4 beats, each beat starts at the beginning of each 1/4 note. That's clear. The RH notes do not all fall on the beat, that's also clear. My main issue is for how long you hold the 1/4 notes? That is, how much note and how much rest?

The more general question is: If you have notes to played staccato, how long do you hold each note before you give it the staccato effect?
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#1277396 - 09/29/09 03:07 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: MiM]
bobjr Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 99
Sounds good to me.. What your playing pretty much matches up with what I have.

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#1278137 - 09/30/09 06:01 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: bobjr]
bobjr Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 99
I see what you mean about La Bamba and the timing. I seem to be able to play it decent, so I'm just going to move on. I always did like Twist and Shout better than La Bamba anyway. It seems the songs are now starting to get a lot easier now, nothing really new here, I'm sure I will get stuck on something eventually. Anyone else notice that things get easier after "La Bamba".

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#1278210 - 09/30/09 08:09 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: bobjr]
Waltz Offline
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Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 707
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: bobjr
I see what you mean about La Bamba and the timing. I seem to be able to play it decent, so I'm just going to move on. I always did like Twist and Shout better than La Bamba anyway. It seems the songs are now starting to get a lot easier now, nothing really new here, I'm sure I will get stuck on something eventually. Anyone else notice that things get easier after "La Bamba".

I know progress feels nice, but personally, I think it's important to be able to, more or less, play a piece in its entirety before moving on. This doesn't mean to play it perfectly "musical" but it does mean to play it as written. This ensures that the skills meant to be learned were actually learned as opposed to perused. La Bamba is a frustrating piece, so I can understand how you feel.
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#1278314 - 09/30/09 11:59 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and All in One Adult Piano Course Book #2 [Re: Waltz]
bobjr Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 99
Waltz: You are right. I can play the song as written, what I may end up doing is most of these songs still seem to be a "review" of book 1, before I move on to the new material I will take a 2nd flip through it just to make sure I didn't miss anything. I'm not in a rush to finish the book believe me, I know its going to take some time. I think I went through book 1 about 4 or 5 times to be honest before I moved on to book 2. It seems that each song has something new to be learned.

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