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#1280812 - 10/04/09 09:39 PM Re: CLP-340 , does it sound a little too "bright"? [Re: Marty Flinn]
pilgrimjoel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Michigan
Marty,

Does it matter? You've seen several now. And almost all of them -- except the OP -- have not been criticisms. The Yamaha sound is the Yamaha sound. Maybe it's not as bright as it once was, maybe the digitals give you a little more control to adjust it, but the overall sound still tends bright. For most people who buy and shop Yamaha, that's not a problem, and many prefer it -- especially in a DP.

It's all relative anyway, and when people refer to Yamaha DPs as bright, they're most likely comparing them to Roland and Kawai. Compared to those pianos, they are bright. Again, not a criticism. Personally, I'm glad they don't all sound the same, and that people have options.

I don't know if there have been specific threads on their brightness before this one. But I have seen it mentioned on other threads -- multiple times -- when compared to other DPs. Just browse some Roland threads, and you'll see it. It's not all dissing either. What's wrong with observing that Roland and Yamaha are different or helping prospective buyers -- like me -- understand why they're different?

To shift back to acoustics. Personally, my own tastes have changed, and our C3 is brighter than I'd like (it's 9 years old). But it's certainly not harsh, nor is it anywhere near the brightest I've ever heard. That honor goes to a Kapteyn & Sons (Wilh. Steinberg IQ28 with dealer specifications). Horrific sound!

-Joel

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#1280908 - 10/05/09 01:56 AM Re: CLP-340 , does it sound a little too "bright"? [Re: Marty Flinn]
pocoloco Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 19
Loc: nsw
Instead of proving what the previous consensus on CLP 340's sound quality, why don't we establish a brand new consensus here?

It has been a week already since I have my CLP 340, I am sort of getting used to it, maybe my original comment on treble being harsh was a bit too harsh. I think the volume is not meant to be 100% up, probably it sound the best around 75%. What do you think?

Still haven't had a chance to test with headphones.



Edited by pocoloco (10/05/09 02:08 AM)
_________________________
hi

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#1280917 - 10/05/09 02:19 AM Re: CLP-340 , does it sound a little too "bright"? [Re: pocoloco]
EmmaElise Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 37
Loc: N. California
Wow! I keep the volume on my p155 at about 75% which sounds good and is plenty loud with the on board speakers. It's too loud for me with headphones. Just for fun tomorrow, I'll try it louder, though I don't think I'll be able to go the full 100%. I know it would definitely hurt my ears eek.
_________________________
Love others and do what you love!

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#1280962 - 10/05/09 04:23 AM Re: CLP-340 , does it sound a little too "bright"? [Re: pocoloco]
trolls99 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 110
Loc: Germany
I believe that this is the standard response. After a while people get used to the sound of their DPs and come to like it a lot. I've read surpisingly few posts of DP owners that are unhappy with their instruments. Unhapiness may start only if after a while they get the chance to play on another piano - real or digital.

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#1280986 - 10/05/09 05:14 AM Re: CLP-340 , does it sound a little too "bright"? [Re: emenelton]
Grigou Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 9
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: emenelton

A common thing to do with a new DP is to turn the volume up too much. Try finding a happy medium with your master volume control and get used to it. Possibly start a little on the quiet side. When you find yourself banging too hard to listen at moderate levels, inch your master volume up a little.


We would consider too, that it could be the opposite : to produce the same intensity of sound, you have to hit the keys harder with a low master volume than with a high master volume. So, you could reach the 3d or even the 4th level of sample, wich are more brilliant, in particular for the 4th (more upper harmonics). A higher master volume will decrease the level of sample to produce the same intensity of sound, i.e. the 2th instead of the 3d (or even instead of the 4th), or 1th instead of 3d...

I think it does exist one ideal position of the master volume to produce the most realistic sound as possible. Not many, just only one (maybe one for the speakers, and another one for the headset). And I think that this position is rather high, perhaps the higher one (depending of the power of the DP). Don't forget that when you hit a lot of keys very hard on a real piano, you produce very much sound... A DP should try to reproduce this as close as possible, so the master volume should be high. In consequence, you'll have to hit the keys softer, to finally obtain a more realistic mellow tune produced by the first levels of sampling.


Edited by Grigou (10/05/09 05:15 AM)

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#1281244 - 10/05/09 02:04 PM Re: CLP-340 , does it sound a little too "bright"? [Re: Grigou]
Marty Flinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 2604
I'll take one more pass at this then shut up.
I've got no problem with someone who plays and listens to a new Yamaha CLP340 and offers the observation/opinion that to their ear it sounds "bright" in comparison to other brands and models they have played or heard.

In this thread there have been nine posters who have claimed Clavinova "brightness." I would be curious to know, of those, how many have personally played or heard a new Yamaha CLP340? None posters on one thread on the Piano World Digital Forum does not a "general consensus" make. If you have a personal observation on tone on a given instrument, make it. Stand by it. But don't attempt to strengthen it by invoking a universe of opinion that isn't supported in fact.

I am not out to change opinion. I am out to keep potential customers judgements and opinions open until they have experienced the product for themselves. We all hear music (pianos) differently. Two customers on the same piano on the same day often describe the sound 180 degrees apart.

The comments I objected to were in the form of:
"It is the general consensus", "I have heard before", indicating second hand information or over generalization. If this type of comment disuades even one single shopper from at least auditioning a new Yamaha Clavinova for themselves, this is a disservice to the shopper and Yamaha.
_________________________
Co-Author of The Complete Idiot's Guide To Buying A Piano. A "must read" before you shop.
Work for west coast dealer for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe.

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#1281497 - 10/05/09 11:28 PM Re: CLP-340 , does it sound a little too "bright"? [Re: Marty Flinn]
Geoffk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 757
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Originally Posted By: Marty Flinn
If this type of comment disuades even one single shopper from at least auditioning a new Yamaha Clavinova for themselves, this is a disservice to the shopper and Yamaha.


I think most of the regular posters here always encourage people to try out DPs for themselves before they buy them--precisely because they *do* sound and feel different. And you can't know which one you'll prefer until you hear for yourself. I played Yamahas and Rolands many times before deciding that I personally preferred the Roland sound and touch. But I've read many threads where other people did the same thing and fell in love with the Yamaha instead.

Anyway, the point is that nobody is really disparaging Yamaha here or telling people not to try them. If you hate bright sounding pianos, than you probably won't like Yamaha--but playing it is the way to discover that.

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#1281558 - 10/06/09 03:39 AM Re: CLP-340 , does it sound a little too "bright"? [Re: Geoffk]
PLV Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 27
I have bought my CLP-340 few weeks ago. After reading this forum I got inspired to to play around with the settings and now I have found a setting that sounds optimal to me. I share it with you in case someone wants to try it:

- "GRAND PIANO 1" voice
- HARD touch sensitivity
- ROOM reverb
- NORMAL/MELLOW brilliance (both are lit)

This works perfectly for me and actually improved my playing experience with the CLP-340 compared to the default settings.
You can save any configuration as default setup by using the backup function (check the owner's guide).

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#1281609 - 10/06/09 07:48 AM Re: CLP-340 , does it sound a little too "bright"? [Re: Marty Flinn]
bobbo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 118
Originally Posted By: Marty Flinn

The comments I objected to were in the form of:
"It is the general consensus", "I have heard before", indicating second hand information or over generalization. If this type of comment disuades even one single shopper from at least auditioning a new Yamaha Clavinova for themselves, this is a disservice to the shopper and Yamaha.


Marty I assume you have an issue with my statement, heres my rebuttal...

Firsty, On this thread I haven't encountered a single criticism or downputting of yamaha. I personally think yamahas are top notch pianos too, I like them and i would always encourage DP shoppers to try out all the brands. I prefer Roland, it doesn't mean I'm on a Jihad against Yamaha.

I've been on these forums for years also researching suitable DPs for myself and I am certainly under the impression that many on this forum find Yamahas are brighter compared to say, the rolands.

Excluding the opinions on this thread alone...
Just a quick search using the search facility on this forum.....heres the first 6 results out of a hundred or so..the search is only limited to 2 years and so the opinions on whether yamahas are bright is going to go far beyond this tiny sample...

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/680411/Searchpage/1/Main/54252/Words/bright/Search/true/Re:%20Roland%20HP%20204%20(compared%20to.html#Post680411
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/658274/Searchpage/1/Main/51414/Words/bright/Search/true/Re:%20FP-7,%20HP-203,%20HP-207:%20same.html#Post658274
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/694759/Searchpage/2/Main/56113/Words/bright/Search/true/Re:%20Preparing%20to%20shop%20for%20DP%20-.html#Post694759
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/694856/Searchpage/2/Main/56123/Words/bright/Search/true/Re:%20Between%20Yamaha%20or%20Roland%20D.html#Post694856
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/699558/Searchpage/2/Main/56704/Words/bright/Search/true/Re:%20Buying%20top%20DP%20for%20the%20futu.html#Post699558
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/669634/Searchpage/1/Main/52838/Words/bright/Search/true/Re:%20CP33%20Grand%20Piano%20Sound.html#Post669634
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/658274/Searchpage/1/Main/51414/Words/bright/Search/true/Re:%20FP-7,%20HP-203,%20HP-207:%20same.html#Post658274

I hope this sample plus the other 100 or so and the many more in the previous years are enough evidence for me to stand by my claim that there is a opinion by many here, that yamahas are bright, and if posters talk about quality of tone, the yamahas will be described as brighter than other brands. If this is a recurring statement on this forum, then that could be described as a concensus here. The opinions of posters on this thread strengthen the case.

I am very suprised you have not until now, not once, ever, read that posters have stated that yamahas are bright. I have read it many times, as others have stated on this thread too...plus there is now plenty to read if you search for "bright" in the DP forums, they will almost certainly refer to the yamaha sound.

I have played the entire yamaha dp range as my nearest yamaha dealer happens to stock only yamaha, everything from the console uprights to the CFIIIs and from yamaha keyboards to digigrands. they have quite literally, everything yamaha under the sun. I've had dealers also say that yamahas are brighter and people might prefer them for jazz or pop music, from dealers that stock both yamahas and other DP brands, and acoustics. Have I played the CLP340? ..you bet! When i try out the acoustic grands such as the CFIIIs and the S series etc, I don't find them bright at all, the sound is quite unlike that of the DPs imho.


Edited by bobbo (10/06/09 07:49 AM)

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#1281896 - 10/06/09 05:16 PM Re: CLP-340 , does it sound a little too "bright"? [Re: bobbo]
Marty Flinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 2604
Bobbo,
"You have done your homework, defended yourself, and made a compelling case." That was my first blush to your post. Then I decided to read through your evidence citations. Oops?!
1. Refers to Yamaha acoustic pianos. This discussion is about CLP340 specifically and Clavinovas generally. -1
2. Refers to a response from the CLP280, an older model. But, yes indeed a Clavinova. + One point!
3. Refers to the tone in DPs in the $800-$1200 range. Certainly not a Clavinova. -1
4. Refers to a 200 series older model, not a CLP340, but a Clavinova +1
5. Refers to a CP33 model. Not a Clavinova. -1
6. Refers to a CP33 model and in the context of voice comparisons within the instrument relative to each other. -1
7. Is a duplicate of #2. 0

If the other 93 results for "bright" are as inconclusive as your first seven, it hardly seems a complete conclusion.

For the most part I believe the bulk of the rap of Yamaha being "bright" on this forum is directed to their acoustic pianos. Yes, I read this all the time. I honestly had not heard or read what I believed to be a "consensus of opinion" on Clavinovas in general and certainly not in the CLP340 specifically. I see your broader more global scope to include all Yamaha products from keyboards to concert grands.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
_________________________
Co-Author of The Complete Idiot's Guide To Buying A Piano. A "must read" before you shop.
Work for west coast dealer for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe.

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#1281919 - 10/06/09 06:06 PM Re: CLP-340 , does it sound a little too "bright"? [Re: Marty Flinn]
pilgrimjoel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Michigan
How about this? We won't claim that everyone thinks they're bright, but you won't claim that everyone thinks they're not. Don't forget, you were reporting at second hand, too, and claiming that you had never, ever heard (or read) a single person say the CLP340 was bright. You weren't just giving your own opinion. Well, now you have heard it.

My question: I've only played Clavinovas, but we've considered trying to find the P155. Of course, I'd expect the Clavinova to sound (and feel) better -- especially through the speakers -- but is the sound really that different? Are they sampled from different pianos? Just curious.

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#1281928 - 10/06/09 06:24 PM Re: CLP-340 , does it sound a little too "bright"? [Re: pilgrimjoel]
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1789
Loc: Central TX
Originally Posted By: pilgrimjoel
My question: I've only played Clavinovas, but we've considered trying to find the P155. Of course, I'd expect the Clavinova to sound (and feel) better -- especially through the speakers -- but is the sound really that different? Are they sampled from different pianos? Just curious.


Consider that even if they were sampled from the exact same piano (or indeed, use the exact same samples) that other design factors in the pianos (amps, speakers, speaker location, cabinet design, other acoustic processing (e.g. reverb)) could have a significant effect on the sound.

What's funny is that while I too personally generally find Yamaha acoustics to be "brighter" than others, that their Clavinovas don't elicit the same feeling (i.e. if you were to ask me if Clavinovas are "bright", I'd likely respond with "hmmm, I'm not sure"). And like Marty, I don't hear it being chanted as a mantra anywhere nearly as much as with their acoustics.

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#1281939 - 10/06/09 06:44 PM Re: CLP-340 , does it sound a little too "bright"? [Re: pilgrimjoel]
UpNorth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 70
Originally Posted By: pilgrimjoel
...My question: I've only played Clavinovas, but we've considered trying to find the P155. Of course, I'd expect the Clavinova to sound (and feel) better -- especially through the speakers -- but is the sound really that different? Are they sampled from different pianos? Just curious.


I'm definitely no expert - but I just hooked up my P155 to a 60W dual speaker setup, and I've been having some fun experimenting with speaker placement, how much/little of the P155's onboard sound speakers are used, the tone parameter (bright to mellow), etc. etc.. I can say this - the difference between the built-in speakers alone on the P155 compared to using some decent external speakers is absolutely night and day.

I'm currently trying to create a fairly homogeneous "cloud" of clear, well-defined sound from the speakers in the area behind and slightly above the keyboard (since I don't think I want to hear a stereo separation effect from speaker A and speaker B - that seems unnatural?), and it sounds great. For now, I like the tone somewhere in the Normal-Mellow to Mellow range, leaning towards Mellow. Can't decide if Hard or Medium "action" setting is best for me yet - it's at Medium now. I can see how the P155 could be described as "bright" - but in my case there are so many variables at work in this setup. One thing seems clear to me - you get a lot for the money with the P155 if you can do without the fancier cabinetry, some of the voices, and the slightly-nicer keyboard action.

Anyways, I hope I didn't digress too much from this thread. Cheers!

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