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#1280912 - 10/05/09 02:10 AM Only Place You Can Really Learn to Play the Piano is in BED!
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Quote:

Over the past couple of years, Robert Stickgold, a cognitive neruoscientist at Harvard Medical School, has teamed up with Mathew Walker of Boston's Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center to investigate sleep's effects on procedural memory for motor skills.

They asked right-handed test subjects to type a sequence of numbers with their left hand as fast as they could. No matter what time of day they learned the task, their accuracy improved 60% to 70% after six minutes of practice. When subjects who learned the sequence in the morning were retested 12 hours later, they didn't significantly improve. But when those who learned the sequence in the evening were retested following a night's sleep, they were 15% to 20% faster and 30% to 40% more accurate.

New technology is leading to more insights. Research by Bruce McNaughton, a psychologist and physiologist at the University of Arizona in Tucson, has shown that many of the same neurons that fire during the daytime -- say, when a rat is learning to navigate a maze -- are reactivated during the REM stage of sleep. "Basically, the brain is reviewing its recently stored data," McNaughton says. Eventually the brain consolidates those patterns.

Perhaps that's what sleep really is: repeated cycles that aloow you to learn new tricks without forgetting old ones

* from TIME: Your Brain: A User's Guide 2009

also see:
http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/healthy/matters/benefits-of-sleep/learning-memory

I have found that doing slow, deliberate, accurate play- throughs of material I learned that day and the day before that , before retiring for the night, has done wonders for my speed of learning and ability to memorize.

This study would seem to scientifically support my anecdotal findings.

Tremendous implications for instructions to students on how and when to practice and added credence to the belief on how important sleep is to the learning process.

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#1280922 - 10/05/09 02:32 AM Re: Only Place You Can Really Learn to Play the Piano is in BED! [Re: theJourney]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
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Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
I tell all my students don't try and learn it now, that'll happen while you're asleep.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1280945 - 10/05/09 03:46 AM Re: Only Place You Can Really Learn to Play the Piano is in BED! [Re: keyboardklutz]
theJourney Offline
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Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Do you tell them how important it is to learning to practice deliberately in the evening shortly before beddie bed time?

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#1280949 - 10/05/09 03:52 AM Re: Only Place You Can Really Learn to Play the Piano is in [Re: theJourney]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
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Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
I believe that's a CC Chang thing - practice slowly and perfectly just before bedtime - hopefully my students get to bed early anyway. I'm not sure it raises the odds much - memories are more tied to emotion.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1280987 - 10/05/09 05:14 AM Re: Only Place You Can Really Learn to Play the Piano is in [Re: keyboardklutz]
theJourney Offline
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Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
The facts emerging from scientifically controlled experiments on procedural memory for motor skills would tend to disagree with your opinion. The time your students go to bed is irrelevant, the practicing before going to bed however can result in quicker learning, better proficiency and longer retention. Ignore the findings at your students' peril!

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#1280997 - 10/05/09 05:32 AM Re: Only Place You Can Really Learn to Play the Piano is in [Re: theJourney]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
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Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
tJ you miss the point. The earlier they go to bed the closer it is to when they just practiced. I have kids who tell me they practice at about 8pm because of other commitments and are then in bed by 9pm.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1281005 - 10/05/09 05:51 AM Re: Only Place You Can Really Learn to Play the Piano is in [Re: keyboardklutz]
theJourney Offline
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Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Gotcha. Sounds good. Even better would be to have an early morning or noon practice to do the work and then an evening session to refine and revise the work.

Do you really believe though that procedural memory for motor skills is principally influenced by emotions? Do you have any cites that would back this up?

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#1281008 - 10/05/09 05:59 AM Re: Only Place You Can Really Learn to Play the Piano is in [Re: theJourney]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
There's plenty to say that emotion chooses what and how we remember. I would think there are no exceptions. You only pay attention (i.e. remember) to what has emotional relevance for you. Even a motor skill would need a motivator. This man's very famous, he knows how the amygdala affects memory:
http://discovermagazine.com/brightcove?bcpid=370512060&bclid=533256427&bctid=1283221335


Edited by keyboardklutz (10/05/09 06:07 AM)
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1281083 - 10/05/09 09:33 AM Re: Only Place You Can Really Learn to Play the Piano is in [Re: keyboardklutz]
Morodiene Offline
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Registered: 04/06/07
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That is interesting, kbk. But I do wonder with relation to performance anxiety how that applies. Someone may have an emotional attachment to the piece their performing, but then they forget the piece because of the emotional reaction to performing for an audience. They are able to recall the piece afterward again, and their love of the piece hasn't changed, necessarily.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#1281086 - 10/05/09 09:38 AM Re: Only Place You Can Really Learn to Play the Piano is in [Re: theJourney]
TimR Offline
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Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3206
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Gotcha. Sounds good. Even better would be to have an early morning or noon practice to do the work and then an evening session to refine and revise the work.



Even better would be naps.

We aren't designed to sleep the night through. Our insistence on doing so destroys our ability to take naps during the day, greatly limiting our performance.
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#1281087 - 10/05/09 09:39 AM Re: Only Place You Can Really Learn to Play the Piano is in [Re: TimR]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
I missed mine today!
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1281247 - 10/05/09 02:06 PM Re: Only Place You Can Really Learn to Play the Piano is in [Re: Morodiene]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
That is interesting, kbk. But I do wonder with relation to performance anxiety how that applies. Someone may have an emotional attachment to the piece their performing, but then they forget the piece because of the emotional reaction to performing for an audience. They are able to recall the piece afterward again, and their love of the piece hasn't changed, necessarily.
I see where you're coming from. The amygdala will only help more specific learning - to help learners we need it to 'light up' a specific facet by getting them to emote over it. Yes, if a student fouls up the piece will change in their memory. It will have been brought out but put back a little the worse for wear.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1282486 - 10/07/09 01:53 PM Re: Only Place You Can Really Learn to Play the Piano is in BED! [Re: theJourney]
MaryBee Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/09
Posts: 1212
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Originally Posted By: theJourney

I have found that doing slow, deliberate, accurate play- throughs of material I learned that day and the day before that , before retiring for the night, has done wonders for my speed of learning and ability to memorize.

This study would seem to scientifically support my anecdotal findings.


More anecdotal evidence:
I always practice late at night before going to sleep. But last night, I actually dreamed I was playing the piece I've been working on and trying to memorize. (First time this ever happened.) Woke up this morning and had to try it. Played it through without a problem! yippie
_________________________
Mary Bee
Current mantra: Play outside the box.
XVI-XXXIV

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