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#1281463 - 10/05/09 09:51 PM J.P. Pramberger Price Question
Tennyson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 2
Hello everyone, I am shopping for an upright piano for my 13-year old son and would very much appreciate some guidance (I don't play but am trying to do as much research as I can). We live in New England. I have consulted the on-line Larry Fine buyers' guide and have narrowed the search down to several pianos that he classifies in the upper level of consumer-grade pianos. My son has tried several of these now, including a Yamaha U1 and a Pramberger JP-125 (a 48" upright from the Platinum series). So far, he has a definite preference for the Pramberger, preferring its tone and feel to the Yamaha. I have also suggested that he try a Boston upright, which is ranked by Larry Fine in the same tier as the others and I believe has the more melodic and less bright tone that my son seems to prefer. The dealer has quoted $7800 plus taxes and delivery for the Pramberger JP-125. I haven't found a lot of information thus far on Pramberger prices but the same dealer is quoting $7000 for the Yamaha U1 which seems higher than I have seen recently in several posts in this forum (although some of those may have been from different geographic areas/different markets). Can someone please give me a reality check on these prices?

I'd also love any feedback on the Pramberger vs. Boston upright comparison. They seem to be pretty comparable so it may just boil down to personal preference but it would be great to hear about any of your experiences with these.

Thanks very much for your help!!

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#1281913 - 10/06/09 05:59 PM Re: J.P. Pramberger Price Question [Re: Tennyson]
HappyApple Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 254
Loc: Tennessee, USA
I wish I could help you. I have a $700 1970 Baldwin Hamilton, that I adore! Good luck to you. I hope you find 'the one'!
_________________________
“Some people stay far away from the door if there’s a chance of it opening up. They hear a voice in the hall outside and hope that it just passes by.” Billy Joel

1970 Baldwin Hamilton

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#1281925 - 10/06/09 06:17 PM Re: J.P. Pramberger Price Question [Re: HappyApple]
Nick Mauel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 777
Loc: Sarasota and Naples, FL
Tennyson,

Since you mentioned that you have been on Pianobuyer.com, no doubt you have read about the actual selling prices based on discounts from Fine's SMP pricing.

I was wondering if you had questioned the apparent discrepancy in pricing - from the same dealer as you report - on the 2 models you are considering.

The Yamaha has an SMP that's 10% higher than the JP, yet the dealer's price for the Yamaha is 10% lower. Does it not strike you that the Yamaha would be a better deal? I would have a problem paying as much for a Korean piano when I could get a Yamaha, and certainly not more.

Thanks,

Nick
_________________________
Nick's Piano Showroom
Naples, Fort Myers, & Sarasota, FL
New Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Brodmann & Ritmuller
239-206-4541 direct line
www.nickspiano.com

Concert Piano Technician, Dealer, and Pianist

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#1281932 - 10/06/09 06:32 PM Re: J.P. Pramberger Price Question [Re: Nick Mauel]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10340
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
The tonality of the Pramberger is very different than the Yamaha.

Which do you like better?
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#1281934 - 10/06/09 06:36 PM Re: J.P. Pramberger Price Question [Re: Steve Cohen]
Nick Mauel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 777
Loc: Sarasota and Naples, FL
His post already stated a preference for the Pramberger.

In comparing the prices on Pianobuyer.com, it should be had for less than the Yamaha, especially if the dealer is the same for both.
_________________________
Nick's Piano Showroom
Naples, Fort Myers, & Sarasota, FL
New Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Brodmann & Ritmuller
239-206-4541 direct line
www.nickspiano.com

Concert Piano Technician, Dealer, and Pianist

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#1281941 - 10/06/09 06:51 PM Re: J.P. Pramberger Price Question [Re: Nick Mauel]
M.O.P. Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 981
Loc: Ocala, Florida
Just curious, Nick. What's wrong with a Korean piano?
_________________________
Nancy Fanzlaw
Seamstress for the Band

www.FortePianoGallery.com
Forte' Blog - Technical Tuesdays
Forte' on Facebook

"The piano was God's gift to music." Lou Mason


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#1281944 - 10/06/09 06:57 PM Re: J.P. Pramberger Price Question [Re: M.O.P.]
Nick Mauel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 777
Loc: Sarasota and Naples, FL
Nancy, I am speaking about Korean pianos when compared to Japanese pianos.

Larry Fine has had much to say about this subject, so I would just be repeating things he has already written, since I happen to agree.

I have to run now but can certainly give you some of the highlights later!
_________________________
Nick's Piano Showroom
Naples, Fort Myers, & Sarasota, FL
New Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Brodmann & Ritmuller
239-206-4541 direct line
www.nickspiano.com

Concert Piano Technician, Dealer, and Pianist

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#1281945 - 10/06/09 07:02 PM Re: J.P. Pramberger Price Question [Re: Nick Mauel]
M.O.P. Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 981
Loc: Ocala, Florida
Don't need the highlights, but thank you for offering. Was just curious about your personal position, not Larry's, since you said "you" would have a problem paying as much for a Korean piano. I don't want to hijack this thread. PM me if you get a couple of minutes, I am curious.


Edited by M.O.P. (10/06/09 07:05 PM)
_________________________
Nancy Fanzlaw
Seamstress for the Band

www.FortePianoGallery.com
Forte' Blog - Technical Tuesdays
Forte' on Facebook

"The piano was God's gift to music." Lou Mason


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#1281946 - 10/06/09 07:03 PM Re: J.P. Pramberger Price Question [Re: M.O.P.]
M.O.P. Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 981
Loc: Ocala, Florida
Art, has your son played a Boston yet? Let us know if he does!
_________________________
Nancy Fanzlaw
Seamstress for the Band

www.FortePianoGallery.com
Forte' Blog - Technical Tuesdays
Forte' on Facebook

"The piano was God's gift to music." Lou Mason


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#1281947 - 10/06/09 07:05 PM Re: J.P. Pramberger Price Question [Re: Nick Mauel]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10340
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Quote:
Nancy, I am speaking about Korean pianos when compared to Japanese pianos.

Larry Fine has had much to say about this subject, so I would just be repeating things he has already written, since I happen to agree.



From Larry's new Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer, Page 39:

"Quality control in Korean models is now nearly as good as in pianos from Japan..."

I'm glad you agree Nick. wink

Also Nick, the reason that the Yamaha is more than the Pramberger is dominantly due to lower costs of living and lower labor costs in Korea when compaared to Japan.

You seem to embrace that logic when tauting Hailun. Why doesn't the same logic apply here?
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#1282095 - 10/07/09 12:06 AM Re: J.P. Pramberger Price Question [Re: Steve Cohen]
Nick Mauel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 777
Loc: Sarasota and Naples, FL
As Larry would say, progress regarding Korean pianos has (for decades) been one step forward, two steps back.

If you want to compare this record with Hailun, then it only seems worse.

Regarding paying as much (or more) for a Korean piano when you can have Yamaha or Kawai on the fallboard - it just ain't a good investment! But you industry pros should already know that.

Steve, you don't have to tell me why the Yamaha has a higher price. I only pointed out to the original poster that he should look at the discount he is getting on either brand to see which one is greater, especially from the same dealer.

Nancy, to enlighten you a little bit about the Korean pianos, read the second from last paragraph on page 39 of pianobuyer.com.

Thanks,

Nick
_________________________
Nick's Piano Showroom
Naples, Fort Myers, & Sarasota, FL
New Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Brodmann & Ritmuller
239-206-4541 direct line
www.nickspiano.com

Concert Piano Technician, Dealer, and Pianist

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#1282347 - 10/07/09 10:57 AM Re: J.P. Pramberger Price Question [Re: Tennyson]
Tennyson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 2
Thanks to everyone for the very helpful replies. Nick, your points are well taken regarding the price disparity between the Yamaha and the Pramberger we were considering. I had reviewed the brand quality analysis in the Larry Fine guide but hadn't spent enough time with the pricing part of the guide. I now understand the argument as to why the Pramberger should generally be priced lower and it looks like there is room there for more negotiation if that is the direction we decide to go in.

Unless I am misreading Mr. Fine's chart in which he categorizes the various brands and models on the basis of quality, it appears a JP Pramberger Platinum vertical is ranked at the same level as a Yamaha vertical (and a Boston vertical). Based on that, my view was that the two pianos are comparable in quality so the choice between the two really boils down to personal preference regarding the tone and feel/action. My son had a definite preference for the Pramberger on these points. I suppose the argument for a Yamaha as a better "investment" makes some sense, but it seems that this may be due more to the much broader Yamaha brand recognition (which I presume would enhance its resale value) rather than the relative quality of the two pianos. While the investment issue is a consideration, at the end of the day, given two pianos of comparable quality, the personal preference issue trumps it for me.

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#1282379 - 10/07/09 11:43 AM Re: J.P. Pramberger Price Question [Re: Tennyson]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10340
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Tennyson,

I think your conclusions are sound.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#1282449 - 10/07/09 01:08 PM Re: J.P. Pramberger Price Question [Re: Steve Cohen]
Marty Flinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 2604
The Wm. Knabe & Co. WKV121 is nearly the same piano as the Pramberber made in the same factory. If you have a dealer for these, compare the pricing and performance.
_________________________
Co-Author of The Complete Idiot's Guide To Buying A Piano. A "must read" before you shop.
Work for west coast dealer for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe.

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#1282453 - 10/07/09 01:10 PM Re: J.P. Pramberger Price Question [Re: Steve Cohen]
M.O.P. Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 981
Loc: Ocala, Florida
Tennyson, FWIW, I agree with Steve on your conclusions, and, as a seller of Korean and Japanese instruments, I believe you're spot on. (btw, since you don't allow for pm's, I did try to email you, but the email on your profile didn't work.)

Nick, Thanks for the suggestion, but I've been selling Korean pianos for many years. I'm glad you seem to agree with Larry. smile It was just your opinion I was interested in, not Larry's.


Edited by M.O.P. (10/07/09 01:12 PM)
_________________________
Nancy Fanzlaw
Seamstress for the Band

www.FortePianoGallery.com
Forte' Blog - Technical Tuesdays
Forte' on Facebook

"The piano was God's gift to music." Lou Mason


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