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#1272513 - 09/22/09 07:21 AM Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway
Cashley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 530
Do both share the same action design ?


Edited by Cashley (09/22/09 09:54 AM)

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#1272540 - 09/22/09 08:37 AM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: Cashley]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4263
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Not at the same time.
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#1272587 - 09/22/09 10:09 AM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Scooters Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/03/09
Posts: 227
Loc: N.E. Montana


whome ha

Good one... but seriously, I'm sure someone knows.
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Associate Member Piano Technicians Guild
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#1272606 - 09/22/09 10:33 AM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: Scooters]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4263
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Both use Renner I believe.
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#1272641 - 09/22/09 11:24 AM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Inlanding Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 1766
Loc: Colorado
A friend's 1998 Steinway L has Steinway action parts and hammers, (Labeled as such) but that was then.

I rebuilt the action in my 1917 O with complete Steinway action and hammers as well. The expert Steinway tech who voiced and regulated it suggested I avoid using Renner in that piano.

I am quite pleased with the result. It is as responsive and dynamic as any concert grand I've ever played.

Glen
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#1272691 - 09/22/09 12:34 PM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Cashley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 530
Steinway uses Renner ? Then Steinway is not Steinway anymore.

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#1272727 - 09/22/09 01:24 PM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos

Both use Renner I believe.


Not the New York pianos...and I've heard that Hamburg will be using New York actions in the near future. Or at least NY parts...just something I've heard, so take it FWIW.

@Cashley — The Renner parts used by Hamburg now have exactly the same dimensions as the NY parts. The only major difference I know of is that the action doesn't have the "accelerated" half-round balance rail. I'm sure Peter Sumner will chime in...


Edited by Horowitzian (09/22/09 01:27 PM)
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#1272805 - 09/22/09 03:17 PM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: Horowitzian]
TestBlow Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/17/08
Posts: 15
Loc: New Hampshire
NY Steinway manufactures their own action parts in-house. They also have the capability to manufacture the german style shanks on their machines as well. I think that the Hamburg Steinway parts are made by Renner to Steinway's specs at the moment.

There are some slight differences in design between the two types, but these are small, like how the keyblocks hold down the keyframe. I don't have any experience with Hamburg Steinway though, so I'm not sure of any exact differences - just what's in the service manual
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#1272979 - 09/22/09 07:24 PM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: TestBlow]
Marty Flinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 2604
Steinway seems to be on a multi-year quest to attempt to standardize the two factories products. NY dropped the L and went back to the O. NY revived the A. Hamburg pianos will soon, if not already, have NY action parts. There was a thread about rim construction awhile back. NY rims have always been laminations of maple. Hamburg rims have always been either beech or birch laminations. Don't know if that is changing. Two factories source their soundboard spruce from different local regions. That may change also.
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#1273190 - 09/23/09 03:29 AM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: Marty Flinn]
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
Hamburg Steinway action parts at present(Renner) are different dimensionally than the NY made parts for the NY Steinway. There was a time as in the Pre 1984 Steinway parts whereas Renner was making the action parts for the NY Steinway for Steinway. They(Renner) didn't actually tool up and make the exact copy of the NY parts. They just modified the Hamburg parts in trying to make them compatible with the NY Steinway.They changed the wippen flange and ? in attempting to make this (modified wippen) part work. They also put the 16mm NY shank on to the Hamburg flange.
Hambug shank/flange was 17mm. New York is 16mm.
To make a long story short,they don't work resulting in a very high ratio action. What gets me is,Steinway still sells them and people continue to buy them. I did my research and concluded such. I don't get it.

Now Renner USA is again different than NY Steinway,Hamburg (Renner)Steinway though they work fine in a NY or Hamburg Steinway action specs. smile
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#1273218 - 09/23/09 04:53 AM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: pianobroker]
Cashley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 530
Is it true that Renner manufactured the action parts on Steinway specs, so much so that it's still a Steinway "design" and not Renner ?

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#1273222 - 09/23/09 05:20 AM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: Cashley]
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
Presently Renner manufactures the action parts for the Hamburg pianos according to the designated specs of a Hamburg Steinway.
Again Renner USA Steinway parts are different than Renner made parts manufactured for the Hamburg Steinway.
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#1273364 - 09/23/09 10:51 AM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: pianobroker]
Peter Sumner- Piano Technician Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 852
Loc: San Francisco
I suggest that all enquiries regarding the specs of Steinway piano actions of any era...either NY or Hamburg be directed to those who actually know the answer...The Steinway factory in New York....or Hamburg if you are in Europe and your German is good enough.
There are those in these pages who have demonstrated that they are not fans of Steinway and Sons instruments, action designs and ethos....and use the developments taking place at both factories, on an on-going basis, to highlight 'faults' or 'failures', rather than as developments to improve the instruments in everyones interest.
I will not attribute a motive to those who dirty the water....

Just go to the source...it's that simple.
_________________________
Peter Sumner
Concert Piano Technician



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#1273759 - 09/23/09 09:11 PM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: Peter Sumner- Piano Technician]
Marty Flinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 2604
Peter,
I agree with your concern and your sentiment on this. Unfortunately, often the factory is reluctant to tell the whole truth on various topics. On others factories claim propriatory secrecy. Often it is only through exchanges as this that the truth comes out from a variety of sources.
I feel your concern that there are some on the forum who have other agendas from the truth.
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Work for west coast dealer for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe.

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#1273830 - 09/23/09 11:18 PM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: Marty Flinn]
Peter Sumner- Piano Technician Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 852
Loc: San Francisco
Marty...thanks for the observations....

What about this??
Perhaps the factory errs on the side of caution because they have no clue as to the abilities of the enquirer....
A bit like calling up Ferrari and asking for the gap distance of the spark plugs...
"Oh, and while I'm on the phone...what kind of spark plugs do you use"...
"Oh, yes, I see...."
"And how, exactly, do you put them in"?

There are so many wannabe technicians out there...all with the idea that you just strap the stuff on and off you go...
NO NO NO...
You need to know what you are doing......
When folks don't know what they're doing you get New York pianos with German parts...
Like any good cook, they should just follow the recipe....but then you have to be a good cook....
Maybe cooking would be a more suitable occupation for many in these pages, don't you think?
_________________________
Peter Sumner
Concert Piano Technician



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#1274065 - 09/24/09 10:59 AM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: Peter Sumner- Piano Technician]
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 1943
Loc: Conway, AR USA
To the cursory observer, the Hamburg arm is rounded. Nothing earth-shattering there.

I do not know the present status of the Hamburg Steinway. As Peter suggests, contact the manufacturer. Some data is proprietary, however.

Historically, in my view, it was the superior instrument. Very European in timbre. (If that's your cup of tea.)

Recently played a masterfully re-manufactured Hamburg. Only one word to describe it: Outstanding.

I hope that Steinway does not Americanize the Hamburg. What a loss that will be. Not that there is anything necessarily wrong with the NY instrument. It is, however, nice to have a different choice among fine grands on both sides of the Atlantic.
_________________________
Bob W.
Retired piano technician
Conway, Arkansas

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#1274440 - 09/24/09 07:30 PM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: bkw58]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Good point; I don't see why there is any need to Americanize the instrument. I suppose it might save money, though.
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1282834 - 10/08/09 05:57 AM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: Horowitzian]
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 1943
Loc: Conway, AR USA
Yes, unfortunately, sometimes it's all about the money. This economy doesn't help matters either.
_________________________
Bob W.
Retired piano technician
Conway, Arkansas

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#1283005 - 10/08/09 11:47 AM Re: Material Difference between US and Hamburg Steinway [Re: bkw58]
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
Something that hasn't been mentioned are the differences in the hammers. As with the wippens, New York makes their own while Renner makes them for Hamburg to their specs. I would argue that they are an even bigger factor in the inherent differences between the two instruments.
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