Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Advice for Beethoven's Piano Sonata no 27 op 90

I'm 18 years old, and I'm teaching myself the aforementioned Beethoven Sonata. I have a Korg C-26 (which basically has the range of a grand piano but it does not have pedals) and I seldom practice on a Steinway grand at our school. So, you see how I have a very big problem with my pedaling technique: I CAN'T PRACTICE IT!

I have the Urtext of the abovementioned sonata, and unlike other editions, it does not have any pedal marking. Can you please give me tips on how to pedal this sonata, especially that of the 2nd movement?

In bars 110-129 of the first movement, I only start pedaling at bar 124. Is this practice just right? I've heard of performances not using the pedal in these parts (Like Andras Schiff', for example.)

As for the 2nd movement, I have been alternating the dampers for every measure. However, I don't pedal during those notes with staccato markings. Somehow, I feel awkward doing this.

HELP! Thank you sooo much!

Hi,

As I am very much familiar with this sonata (its one of my favorites, along with the other 31 :D), indeed very little pedaling in the first movement, I like it the best like Andras Schiff does it (and Gulda). Second movement is a different story, it is said that its a 'conversation with a beloved one', if beethoven actually wrote this I don't know, but I can definetly hear the similarity's in the piece. Its important to never muddy it up, but making it to clean will make it sound akward too imo. The staccato's in this piece I ignore (something I very rarely do), because it seems to me very out of place (compared to other lyrical-like works of beethoven), and because of the legato slurs.

The piece in the middle of the first movement (the very fast right hand passage) is really killing btw, especially because you don't want to make it sound too dominant, as the 'melody' is carried in the left hand.

Good luck!!!

I would try and find a good edited edition online or even buy one. Since you don't hve much experience with the pedal you can follow all the specific pedalling and learn that way. Better than trying to follow a few sentences of explanation IMO.

Oh my God. You are a young boy and you want to play Beethovens "Mondschein Sonata". Please do not do this.
Look at the Third Movement, can you play this in the Presto Tempi? Go Ahead.

Chief

He's not playing the "Mondschein Sonata," he's playing Op. 90 (the 27th sonata), not Op. 27...

And what a great third post btw chiefci...

Since the OP has little - if any experience - with the use of the pedal, he should also realize that pedal indications - supplied by editors - are only suggestions. They are not necessarily to be strictly observed. One has to adapt any pedal suggestions to the individual piano one is playing, and, as we all know, every piano is different in amount of sustain both with and without pedal.

Understand that the pedal is simply not an "on and off" switch but that there are potentially infinite shadings available, understand the sound you want to produce, understand how the pedal will help to produce that sound, and then use the pedal judiciously on the particular piano you are playing to get that sound.

Regards,

Sorry, keep cool.
I am an Beethoven Specialist.
Let us be Friends.

Chief

PS. Ok I posted 3 but I Think it would be more. Ha, ha

A Beethoven specialist, that will come in handy as I am a 99% beethoven player myself. Cheers.

I've heard Schiff talk about interpreting Beethoven as "not clean" and that "we shouldn't smooth out the rough edges," reasoning out that as a composer, Beethoven was not a "watercolor painter" rather a "sculptor."

It was when I heard these statements from Schiff that I decided to keep the staccatos. It's my pedaling, however, that make the staccatos sound awkward.

Anyways, thank you sooo much for your advice! I greatly appreciate it.

To quote from my henle urtext:

Staccato: We cannot enter here into a new discussion of the controversial question raised by Nottebohm, Krebs and others regarding the different interpretation of round dots and pointed dashes. The basic texts lack the clarity and consistency necessary for a conclusive decision. Often there is hardly any distinction between dot and dash. Therefore the now customary dot has been employed throughout.

Don't get me wrong, I by no means tend to smooth out Beethoven. Its just that in cases like the second movement of opus 90, you gotta remember what kind of great mind the man had. I refuse to play something that clearly sounds out of place (and I am very well familiar with all Beethoven piano pieces). This is very different than for example the staccato's in the second movement of op13. I don't know of any professional pianists (this includes Andras Schiff, you can even hear it in his lecture when he plays it, you can hear when it is legato or not, but he never plays staccato) who play the staccato's in the 2nd mov op90, but correct me if I'm wrong. Most of all you should offcourse play as you please, but just don't take the urtext versions of today as absolute truths.

Cheers

ps just to be sure, that staccato's I'm talking about are in bar: 2, 6, 8 etc.

I am not familiar with your Korg, but by all means, get a pedal! They're not expensive, and you are really hampering your ability without which to practice regularly. Most digital pianos and keyboards have a sustain pedal input.

As for how to pedal, it is all based on how it sounds. Certainly having an idea of what is acceptable in interpreting Bach vs. Chopin, for instance, you would understand that less pedal is better, so historical considerations are needed. However, the best indicator is your ear. Try a few different ways and make a choice. If you're not sure, do listen to what professional pianists have done with those passages and see which ideas you like best. You will be surprised at the variety, but this gives you freedom. I never look at the pedal markings in the score because as Bruce pointed out, many of them were editorial. That editor does not know my piano or my sensibilities.

Being musically immature, I usually become "faithful to the sheet music." SO, are you advising me that I should also go against some of what is explicitly written in the Urtext version of the piece?

Well most if not all urtext versions have a note in either the front or the back of the book, or at the bottom of the page, where they explain that some (and sometimes a lot) of information was uncertain, and they had to make a choice on what to print. In all cases, being it written in the urtext, is by no means a certainty of correctness, and you should always think for yourself. Like I pointed out, I have yet to find a professional pianist who plays the staccato's in those bars in Opus 90 2nd mov (including Andras Schiff, who I know did a lot of research on all the Beethoven Sonata's), and this is for a reason I pointed out earlier. Again the choice is all yours, I'm just trying to help.

Ok I take a mistake with "Beethovens" Op.Nr. but one thing I want to pointed out. All of the 32 Beethoven Sonatas are very hard to play and a young boy at a digi piano never can do this.
That is my opinion.
Chief

Haha, thats still not very nice. I'm 22 and I play op 49, op 79, op14/1 and am learning op2/1 now. I do however agree that Jan should get a proper digital piano asap if he wants to play the beethoven sonata's.

Jan as you said you are musically immature, may I ask what other beethoven sonata's you have played? I started out with the Pastorale, Pathetique and op90 sonata's myself, only to find out that I could almost certainly never master those, without playing some of beethoven's 'easier' works, hence now I am working down the list (and I can tell you that the op90 is well past half-way in the difficulty ladder, so not a very good start).

I'm 22 and I play op 49, op 79, op14/1
Beethoven composed 32 piano sonatas the 32 was op.111.
Where is op. 49 sorry I found it.Sonata Nr. 20. Big Problem. You think yo can handle it. May be you a small Mozart or you an "Wunderkind"
Chief

Haha wunderkind. No barenboim was able to play all 32 beethoven sonata's from memory at age 17, thats what I call a wunderkind.

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article3238877.ece

I think not all of Beethoven's sonatas are dificult. The 2 op. 49 sonatas are actually very easy, though I haven't formally studied them yet.

By the way, I think that practising on a digital piano is not at all an impediment in learning a Beethoven sonata. I've already learned almost 80% of the sonata op 90, and all I had was a digital piano to start with...

I do respect your opinion, however... after all, we are all entitled to one.

Good day!

Yes my friend. Barenboim is nothing. Sorry but this is not an great Beethoven Interpreator. Look at Horowitz and Glenn Gould, that are good piano player or not?
Chief