With ETDs that are able to measure inharmonicity and make the necessary offsets, do you still tune octaves using comparison (aural) or note by note (ETD) ?

I use Verituner (pocket PC) for pitch adjustment which I usually have to do on everything I tune. For fine tuning I use it for the temperament octave then do the rest aurally. I do this for speed primarily. I use Bill Bremmers mindless octave technique in the treble for the ease and speed of the tuning it facilitates. The resulting treble is spectacular. Incredibly clear and bright. In the bass I tune somewhat less than a 6:3 octave from the bottom of the temp octave down. Use the m3M6 test to verify stretch is just less than a 6:3 octave. This will give a clear bass. I rely too much on the Verituner, but I like it. As my skill at Bremers ET via Marpurg increases, I use that to tune a fine tuning rather than the Verituner.

So you don't tune every note using ETD ? Only for the setting the temperament.

I'm still trying to grasp the context of Bremmer's mindless octaves.

Hi Cashley,

To begin with, I am not a professional tuner...I just like to keep my piano tuned more frequently, as I have 2 player systems installed in the piano, and they really give the piano a daily workout. That being said, I use an ETD for the whole piano, in this case, the RCT pocket edition.

Once I set 1 string of a bi-chord, or the middle string of a tri-chord, I usually use the RCT to tune the other notes. I have learned however, to tune unisons by ear, and many times will tune the other 2 strings by ear, and most of the time I am right on the money, checking them with the RCT.

Tuning octaves...I am not that good at it...yet, so I use the RCT for those.

Here are a few recordings I have made of my piano. In "Danny Boy" you can hear that the opening 3 octaves are pretty well zeroed in. The other recordings use a lot of octaves. My tunings are not perfect by any means, but they're pretty good considering I am not a pro-tuner.

There are are a few issues with my tunings I would like to eventually correct. One is the setting of the pins....that for me is the most difficult thing to learn....the other is that my pins are set a bit too high, and 'flagpole' somewhat when I am trying to set them. This is especially evident in the 5th and 6th octaves...these go flat fairly quickly. I am probably going to have the pins pounded down so that they are not so high. That should help in the stability of the tuning.

These files will sound the best if you listen with a pair of headphones.

1. "Danny Boy" on the LX http://www.box.net/shared/fv9y9obc9y

2. "Dancing in the Dark" on the LX http://www.box.net/shared/eb4bmh0uoa

3. Fox Trot from the 1920's "Alabama Bound" on the LX http://www.box.net/shared/zs8756b7cz

4. "The Shadow of your Smile" on the LX http://www.box.net/shared/a7kkghvxti

5. Classical "Am Sergastade" by Smetna on the LX http://www.box.net/shared/pmie73stex

6. Classical "Reflets dans L'eau" by Debussy on the Ampico http://www.box.net/shared/b3krit1mgd

7. Classical "Jeux Deux" by Ravel on the LX http://www.box.net/shared/aiabr36t71

I do what Alan describes; pitch raises with tunelab, temperament using the machine, then aural. This is a quicker and cleaner way to do it for me. I check all etd sections by ear as I go.

I tune the whole piano with the RCT...setting the octave style to suit the piano.
If it's good enough for Garrick Ohlsson, it's good enough for me...

My theory is that we're not there to prove to anyone what we can do...we say we are tuners so we tune....I get there one way, some get to where they get to another way...
So long as you get there.
Many who tune aurally don't get close....at least an ETD will get you close even though your technique may not be good enough to keep it there very long.

I always check octaves even while tuning with my machine. I almost always agree with it though. I check aurally using tenths and seventeenths to make sure the stretch is correct and even all the way up. The machine that I use allows me to use all of the same aural checks and techniques that I use when I tune without it.

So for example, when you tune A5 from A4, you look at the ETD while striking A5?

I used to to tune the whole piano using an ETD. Recently, I discovered that using ETD just to set the temperament, and then tuning the octaves aurally gives me a better tuning. When checked with the ETD, I find that my aural tuning of octaves is sharp by about 2 cents in the treble and flat by about the same amount in the bass. This is inspite of setting up the ETD to automatically account for inharmonicity.

BTW, I am speaking of tuning my Yamaha U2. I think I have tuned it six times since I have bought it last May. As I said, recently I tuned the octaves aurally and I am amazed that I could hear the beats that the ETD couldn't, especially in the bass. I could hear two to three different sets of beats going on, from very slow to fast, all going on at the same time. Quite busy sounding. When I turn the tuning pin, I find a position that just makes the beats disappear and give a straight and clean sound. Well, not all the time. Some bass octaves just give out those false beats no matter what you do.

I am new to the trade just 1 year into it and I just recently got TuneLab initially to help me understand more about what I was hearing or better to verify what I thought I was hearing. I learned to tune aurally and held off using any ETD for fear of relying on it too much and never developing good aural skills. I now use TuneLab to measure the piano and then to set the temperament and then shut it off. Then I do all the aural checks on the temperament and tweak it if needed and finish the piano aurally. I find useing TuneLab to tune the whole piano seems to do a less than proper tuning in the bass mainly on the spinets and consoles. I am sure their is lots to learn in the ETD world, but I am happy with the results I get using it for the temperament and then going aurally from there.