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#1284990 - 10/11/09 04:59 PM Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun
jazzwee Online   content
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This thread could be fun as well as educational and focused on making music. Coming out of discussion between Studio Joe (Joe Whitehead) and myself in another thread, I thought it was a great idea to come up with ways of reharmonizing (basically coming up with a different chord progression) for the typical nursery rhymes. Nursery Rhymes are simple so it's within the reach of many here to play.

We will start off here with "Mary had a Little Lamb".

The requirements for this little exercise is that the melody must fit completely in the chord progression and must not be altered. There is no other rule as to what chords to use or rhythmic style. In a way it's like composition. But it's simple stuff.

There is no bar here for playing quality, we're just interested in your creativity.

As background to this nursery rhyhme, it is a typical I-IV-V tune, which in the key of C just uses the chords C, F and G.

This is for entertainment value only (and hopefully educational) so the main goal is to have fun. Feel free to ask us how we came up with the reharmonization although I can't guarantee that we will remember how we did it. smile
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#1284993 - 10/11/09 05:02 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: jazzwee]
ten left thumbs Offline
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Loc: Scotland
Sounds like fun! I'll be joining in. smile
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#1284996 - 10/11/09 05:05 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Online   content
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I will make the first submission. Although I had some general idea of what to play from noodling around for a few minutes, I have to say that I was just improvising as I went through it so I may not exactly remember what I did. Because I'm known here for being a jazz guy, at least this first try is not too bizarre smile

I may have cheated slightly in altering the melody. But if you play the same melody throughout, it will still fit, thus staying within the rule. Unfortunately, my "improvising" mentality always causes me to alter the melody.

http://www.box.net/shared/1zls7rx9b9
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#1285000 - 10/11/09 05:10 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: jazzwee]
jotur Offline
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Registered: 09/16/06
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Loc: Santa Fe, NM
One of my favorite ABF threads ever - tho not on reharmonizing necessarily:

Mary Had a Little Lamb

I'm looking forward to more.

Cathy
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#1285001 - 10/11/09 05:12 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: jotur]
jotur Offline
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Registered: 09/16/06
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Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Cool, jazzwee -

Cathy
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#1285004 - 10/11/09 05:17 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: jotur]
jazzwee Online   content
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Darn, Cathy. We're not original. Oh well, this is not limited to "Mary..."
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#1285018 - 10/11/09 05:36 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: ten left thumbs]
Studio Joe Offline
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Loc: Decatur, Texas
If one breakes the rules of your requirement, will they be ostracized? For example variations on the principal melody? I have some ideas that involve a verse in a minor key which would require changinging ther original melody somewhat, but it would still be recognizable as "Mary Had a Little Lamb".

The original song as I remember it in my head uses only I and V (no IV). But another variation idea I have in mind changes the melody to include the IV chord.

I think requiring that "the melody must not be altered" stifles the creativity for delightful things one can do with this arrangement.


Edit: Oh I see you already broke the rule yourself while I was typing my post. So nevermind.


Edited by Studio Joe (10/11/09 05:41 PM)
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#1285021 - 10/11/09 05:45 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: Studio Joe]
Riddler Offline
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Posts: 613
Loc: Florida
Ok, here's mine:

http://www.box.net/shared/q5m1zu1mxg

Kinda fun!

Ed
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#1285023 - 10/11/09 05:45 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: jazzwee]
jotur Offline
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Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Darn, Cathy. We're not original. Oh well, this is not limited to "Mary..."


Improvisation is, by definition, original smile

Cathy
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#1285034 - 10/11/09 05:54 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: jotur]
jazzwee Online   content
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Well Joe, if you open it up to just a recognizable melody we will truly open the doors smile No problem with me. At least in my first try, I purposely stifled myself by making sure the original melody still fits (though I didn't necessarily play it). It was quite limiting, I'd have to agree.

It's all fun so go for it.
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#1285038 - 10/11/09 05:59 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: jazzwee]
ten left thumbs Offline
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Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Riddler's is impressive. Can you tell us what the chords are?
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#1285039 - 10/11/09 06:00 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Online   content
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Riddler that was great! Pretty original. I'm sure each one of these will have a different feel. Some will be dark, mysterious, and perplexing...:)

This is going to be fun! Keep 'em coming.
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#1285052 - 10/11/09 06:27 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: jazzwee]
jotur Offline
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Registered: 09/16/06
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Ed, that was cool, too.

These have quite a different flavor so far (all 2 of you) than the earlier thread. I like!

Cathy
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#1285054 - 10/11/09 06:33 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: jotur]
jazzwee Online   content
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Registered: 04/25/07
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Loc: So. California
But Ed opened the door to jazz versions so now I can do that too smile
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#1285055 - 10/11/09 06:35 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: jotur]
Studio Joe Offline
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Registered: 03/28/07
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Loc: Decatur, Texas
Good Jazzwee and Riddler! Enjoyed 'em.

I'll have to wait for a warmer day to get out to the garage where my recording set-up is, then I'll submit my version. Meanwhile I have a piano in the house to practice on.
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#1285069 - 10/11/09 07:02 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: Studio Joe]
mom3gram Offline
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Loc: New Jersey
This looks like a really fun thread, and I loved the old one that Cathy provided. Those "Mary's" were really cool! But, as a beginner who has been playing from the Alfred Book 1 for over a year, and has never improvised a thing, can you tell me how to get started doing that? I mean, I can sit down and plunk around until I get the melody, but then what do I do next? I'm sure there are other beginners who would love to know that too.
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#1285078 - 10/11/09 07:25 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: mom3gram]
jazzwee Online   content
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Here's the fun part Mom3gram, at the beginning stages, you can play ANY series of white notes on the LH and it will come out ok! The rest of us who are more advanced venture beyond white notes, but you certainly don't have to.

The melody notes...just plunk away at C, D and E (start at E). Can't be simpler than that.

Now there's a little music theory why this works but you can figure that out later AFTER you give it a try.
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#1285080 - 10/11/09 07:29 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: jazzwee]
Riddler Offline
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Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 613
Loc: Florida
TLT,

Here are the chords I used:

C D7 E7 F#7
Bb7 E7 A7 Eb7
F Bb#11
D7 Dbmaj7#11
Cmaj7#11

That #11 ending is a trick I just learned recently. Came in handy!

This thread is a cool idea. There's nothing I like better than finding a simple way to learn something complicated!

Ed
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#1285170 - 10/11/09 11:06 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: Riddler]
FogVilleLad Offline
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
mom3gram, learning to improvise is both the simplest and the most difficult thing to do. It's simple because all you have to do is play whatever comes into mind, it's difficult because conventional learning is all about doing things correctly.

While working your way thru Alfred's, you're using the left side of your brain. That's the rules side. What you've got to do is to access the right side. That's the creative side. Some of your best work will be done away from the piano. Just take a theme or part of a melody and hum or whistle or sing variations on it. For example, "Mary had a little lamb" or "fleece was white as snow." See what comes out when you start to have fun with it. After you've hummed or whistled or sung some variations, return to the piano and try to sound out your variations. (In this context, "variation" can also include "something completely different.")

At first, process is more important than result, so don't judge the results, just sound them out. Continue to do some of that every day. In effect you're teaching yourself to access your subconscious mind. The subconscious does not function in a linear fashion. You may get a lot or nothing at at first. But if you continue, you'll discover that you can access your creative side whenever you want to.

I don't have Level One handy. Does it get into 6th or 7th chords at all? If it doesn't, you might want to skip the reharmonization - or just try some inversions - and concentrate on the melody. A standard jazz form is A1, B, A2. Your improv would be the B. (There is a current jazz vocabulary - you'll see some of it in the responses to this thread - but building large vocabularies won't automatically transform people into writers.)

It may help to recall that Chopin loved to improvise when performing, that Beethoven would have friends over and regale them with his improvising, etc., etc. Actually more than a thousand years before the giants of Western music appeared, the Imperial Chinese wrote down rules for performing at court. Priority was given to the song, within the song priority was given to melody, and the soloist was expected - expected - to improvise. What is now accepted as normal is in fact a response to the exigencies of managing large symphony orchestras. So the content of traditional lessons is, in effect, teaching an aberration in the history of making music.

The whole point of accessing your creative side is to play *you.*











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#1285306 - 10/12/09 06:40 AM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: FogVilleLad]
ten left thumbs Offline
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Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Thanks for those chords, Riddler. In a little while I might be brave enough to try them. For now I've started with something a little more basic, but which should satisfy most 3 year olds:

http://www.box.net/shared/qhz6uur7np

mom3gran - I do hope you will stay and experiment with us. Jazzwee will steer you in the right direction and you will be amazed at what you can achieve without music in front of you. Here I've done as jazzwee suggested - random while notes in the base, and I don't think it sounds all that bad:

http://www.box.net/shared/5t59plxa5u

The first thing I did when I sat at the piano today, I meant to go from a chord of C to F. But I wasn't awake, and my LH went to a G instead. So I accidentally played quite a juicy Gsus. Only thing is, I have no idea what to follow it with! smile
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#1285350 - 10/12/09 09:07 AM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: ten left thumbs]
mom3gram Offline
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Loc: New Jersey
Thanks for the helpful hints, Jazzwee and FogVilleLad. I did try both "noodling" random notes in my LH, as well as random white note chords. It sounded "okay".

Then, what I did was to try it in various ways with chords that I have learned so far, which was easy because I'm using the key of C. So the C chord and the G7 chord sounded good, but I didn't like the F. I made a little "arrangement" using the C and the G7, and adding a couple of RH hand notes to the original melody. I guess mine would have to be called "Mary Had a Little-baby-lamb". Like Riddler said, it would satisfy a 3-year old, which is about where I feel my piano progress is sometimes anyway, so I was pretty proud of myself.

Now, I don't know if you all will let me continue to play with you, because I have no way at the moment to record anything. I have a DP, on which I can record a song, but my DP is on the first floor and my computer is on the second. Not sure if there is any way to get the sound from here to there, and I'm not very techie oriented.

But I will write out the "score" of my "piece" and send it to you. In the meantime, I've really enjoyed hearing what others have come up with.


UPDATE: I've written it out and scanned it. I put it on flickr and tried to upload it here, but it didn't work. I tried to send a link to the flickr page, but that didn't work either. I don't know how to send a pdf file. So if anyone really wants to see it, I could use some suggestions on how to get it on here.


Edited by mom3gram (10/12/09 10:15 AM)
Edit Reason: added to post
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#1285378 - 10/12/09 10:08 AM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: jazzwee]
kevinb Offline
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Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
Hi

Just in case we need any more renditions of Mary had a Little Lamb, mine is here:

http://www.box.net/shared/pxjbn009cc

Comments welcome.

Best wishes
Kevin

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#1285388 - 10/12/09 10:25 AM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: mom3gram]
Studio Joe Offline
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Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 1803
Loc: Decatur, Texas
Originally Posted By: mom3gram

UPDATE: I've written it out and scanned it. I put it on flickr and tried to upload it here, but it didn't work. I tried to send a link to the flickr page, but that didn't work either. I don't know how to send a pdf file. So if anyone really wants to see it, I could use some suggestions on how to get it on here.


I got it to work by copying and pasting it in the browser address bar, but I deleted the final slash mark on the end of the link you posted.

Check your score again. I suspect you intended the low note in the RH part in the next to last measure to be C instead of D.
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#1285395 - 10/12/09 10:40 AM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: Studio Joe]
mom3gram Offline
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Thanks, Joe, you are right about the C. I will fix it and then add the link without the /.
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#1285407 - 10/12/09 10:57 AM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: mom3gram]
mom3gram Offline
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Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 1133
Loc: New Jersey
Okay, another try. Here is the corrected score for my very, very baby step version of "Mary..."

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22966243@N05/4004413989

And WHY doesn't it come up as a click-able link???


Edited by mom3gram (10/12/09 11:00 AM)
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#1285410 - 10/12/09 11:02 AM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: mom3gram]
ten left thumbs Offline
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Loc: Scotland
Kevin - very interesting, again, I'm wondering what chords you're using there.

Mom3 - You mentioned you got on well with the C and the G7, but not the F chord. I'm wondering where you tried the F chord, because it can be very useful here. So, for example, in the first line 'Mary had', the 'had' is on note C. C is in the chord of F (F, A and C), so this is a good place to put an F chord. You can keep the whole lot with the chord of C, but going from C to F and then back again gives it a little more movement. Just a thought. smile

I'm also not that technically proficient. One thing I do have is a Zoom H2 for recording music (before that I used my mp3 player). I'm only mentioning this because a lot of people will be buying the new zoom recorder, and selling the old ones, if you're in the market for a recorder.
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#1285417 - 10/12/09 11:34 AM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: ten left thumbs]
jazzwee Online   content
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
It's great what everyone is doing here. thumb I guarantee you will learn from this. Now try taking a bit more risk.

Now for those trying this, try this experiment. First of all, play it slowly enough so you can put at least one chord per melody note. You will find a little extra freedome here because there will be less possibility of a "wrong note" as anything can pass for a passing tone.

One the left hand, instead of just triads, or even seventh chords, try a pattern. Here's one to try.

1-3-4. (Example D F G). And move this pattern up and down the white notes. It will sound interesting.

Here's another to mix in a little of the black notes. Now this will not always work so it's a matter of experimentation here.

1-3-4# (Example D F G#).

There are reasons why these work (or not).
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#1285419 - 10/12/09 11:38 AM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Mom3Gram, here it is reposted for you.

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#1285427 - 10/12/09 11:57 AM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Just for educational comparisons, TLT's and Mom3Gram's versions are in the key of C.

My version, Riddler's and KevinB's leave the Key of C.

In my case, I used the keys of F, G, Cm, Ab, D. There's more keys when I do chromatic chords but I can't remember exactly what I did. smile. I ended mine on a "Tonic" (release chord) though I did it in minor (Cm).

Riddler's was more adventurous as he went for a sound with more "tension", something definitely preferred by Jazz types. I will make a post along those lines too. What was interesting was how Riddler did not end on a tonic but instead did it after the melody was finished (delayed release of tension).

BTW - when you want to leave a key, you use a lot of dominant chords and it sounds good doing it. Riddler posted his chords so you can see that he does do that.

If you listen to these versions, you will notice a sense of "Tension" with some harmonies, and there will be a pull to "Release" that tension. So most of us are drawn to leave the tune in completion with a return to a tonic. In this case some sort of non-dominant C chord. You will notice how this is also the last note of the melody.

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#1285440 - 10/12/09 12:23 PM Re: Nursery Rhymes Revisited: Reharmonization Fun [Re: ten left thumbs]
kevinb Offline
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Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Kevin - very interesting, again, I'm wondering what chords you're using there.


Honestly, it's nothing clever. In case you're interested, here is the score:

http://www.box.net/shared/4lm7rhcved

The basic tune in the key of C calls for C, F, and G, and maybe D7. That's all I've used, but I've inverted them and added 6ths and 7ths to thicken up the sound. I've also put in some chromatic passing notes to smooth the transitions between some chords -- I haven't names these on the score because, even if they're real chords, they are harmonically irrelevant.

The `(G7)' in the score is the chord that `should' go in that position, since it leads from the D7 to the C. But I thought a rest sounded nicer than a wholly predictable progression smile




Edited by kevinb (10/12/09 12:30 PM)

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