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#1283995 - 10/09/09 07:24 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: -Frycek]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6077
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Mozart said something very interesting about genius:
"Neither a lofty degree of intelligence nor imagination nor both together go to the making of genius. Love, love, love, that is the soul of genius."
You have to love what you are doing, that's why parents should never "push" their children.
Over the past few years, I have tried to find something I could relate to in so-called societies for gifted people (I won't mention their names here because names are irrelevant). What counts is that in such societies most people totally lack passion and in spite of a high IQ haven't done nothing with their lives. Most of these societies have really disappointed me and I have left them with a sense of bitterness inside (I did make some friends, but some bad people really ostracized me and viciously condemned me because of my illness, which, of course, can be considered discrimination, although I have a passion they don't have and do many things I adore which also gave me an entry in Who's Who of Australian Women while they just "sit" on their IQ...)

Anyway, back to the real geniuses, only posterity can tell I think. I agree with Elene that originality is a must for a genius to be remembered.

About playing for memory and practice, they say that Mozart heard Allegri's Miserere only ONCE when he was 14 and wrote it down entirely from memory on the same day. This has always impressed me because my memory is not exactly the best... frown

CA

Don't worry about the confusion, Kathleen smile

Hey, this is my 100th post!
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1284232 - 10/10/09 09:50 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
The technical definition of a genius doesn't mean much. It's just about IQ points and how many one needs to get into Mensa. They're surprizingly common. You probably know a few, might even be one yourself and not even know it. Being a genius is like being a thoroughbred - there's a lot of them out there - tons actually - but how many are Secretariat?

In any case Chopin was way beyond genius by any definition.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#1284248 - 10/10/09 10:35 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: -Frycek]
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Frycek: I have yet to listen to a fugue, but I will certainly take your word for it that they demand a bit of practice. I agree about Chopin's level of genius.

Congrats on your 100th post, ChopinAddict. And I hope you will continue to post here on a regular basis because you raise such great topics for discussion. That you found so many societies where the people were high on IQ but low on compassion does not come as a surprise to me. I think they, as a whole, are usually self-centered and feel superior to the rest of us. I had my IQ tested many years ago. It was 140, wow which really floored me and I questioned it. I fairly certain that it has slipped considerably since then. tired

I remember seeing that movie: "A Beautiful Mind," which starred that "hunk" Russell Crowe as the schizophrenic, John Forbes Nash. He was definitely a genius. And I remember actually sobbing when he was awarded the Nobel Prize. Perhaps I am a little biased about people with mental disorders, and he, especially was really extremely troubled. The movie portrayed him as a gentle and sweet person, however insane. But when I read the book, he turned out to be...well, not a very nice person at all. Which, to me, would make more sense.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1284262 - 10/10/09 10:54 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Does anyone remember that Classical Archieve web site that was devoted strictly to Chopin? You could play an exerpt from most of his compositions and download the sheet music, just twice a month, free. Otherwise you had to enrolled.

Thanks,
Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1284281 - 10/10/09 11:31 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Chopin4life Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 194
Loc: UK
There are different types of IQ. First there is the normal IQ that we usually think of. Then there is emotional IQ which tests your ability to understand people's emotions and act accordingly. I believe that to be a genius you need to be high in both these areas.
_________________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." - Frédéric Chopin

"Hats off gentlemen, a genius!" - Schumann on Chopin

"Chopin is the greatest of them all, for through the piano alone he discovered everything" - Debussy on Chopin


Venables & Son 152

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#1284469 - 10/10/09 05:23 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Chopin4life]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6077
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: Chopin4life
There are different types of IQ. First there is the normal IQ that we usually think of. Then there is emotional IQ which tests your ability to understand people's emotions and act accordingly. I believe that to be a genius you need to be high in both these areas.


That is true, although I am not sure EQ is always correct. I scored up to 170+ on IQ tests and just above average on EQ, but I am VERY sensitive. I can't even listen to Chopin without crying. Because life wasn't meant to be easy, I have become sort of bitter sometimes, although I am still young, but I really like to help people and have even an email address specifically to help people, although I am really not a fan of emails because I am very busy with my projects.... But I like to help. I might have taken the wrong EQ test, maybe I can try a new one. Do you know of any good EQ test?
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1284474 - 10/10/09 05:31 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6077
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: loveschopintoomuch
Does anyone remember that Classical Archieve web site that was devoted strictly to Chopin? You could play an exerpt from most of his compositions and download the sheet music, just twice a month, free. Otherwise you had to enrolled.

Thanks,
Kathleen


Do you mean this, Kathleen? http://www.classicalarchives.com/chopin.html (it is not devoted exclusively to our hero though)
There were two sites I have in my Favourites devoted exclusively to Chopin but they have been taken down... frown
You can download all sorts of scores from here: http://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page
Or MIDI files here without logging in (you can download up to 5 files a day I think): http://www.kunstderfuge.com/chopin.htm

I hope this helps... smile

CA
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1284476 - 10/10/09 05:37 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6077
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: loveschopintoomuch
Frycek: I have yet to listen to a fugue, but I will certainly take your word for it that they demand a bit of practice. I agree about Chopin's level of genius.

Congrats on your 100th post, ChopinAddict. And I hope you will continue to post here on a regular basis because you raise such great topics for discussion. That you found so many societies where the people were high on IQ but low on compassion does not come as a surprise to me. I think they, as a whole, are usually self-centered and feel superior to the rest of us. I had my IQ tested many years ago. It was 140, wow which really floored me and I questioned it. I fairly certain that it has slipped considerably since then. tired

I remember seeing that movie: "A Beautiful Mind," which starred that "hunk" Russell Crowe as the schizophrenic, John Forbes Nash. He was definitely a genius. And I remember actually sobbing when he was awarded the Nobel Prize. Perhaps I am a little biased about people with mental disorders, and he, especially was really extremely troubled. The movie portrayed him as a gentle and sweet person, however insane. But when I read the book, he turned out to be...well, not a very nice person at all. Which, to me, would make more sense.

Kathleen





I am not really knocking down everyone with a high IQ. At the end of this month somebody is visiting from the US, and he is REALLY very smart and also compassionate. He basically left the HiQ world too and had formed a small group where the rule was "no bragging". Unfortunately the group is not active any more.
Call me crazy, but I have just joined a new society because now and then you do meet nice people, so I thought I would give it a go...
Congratulations on you IQ test, Kathleen. It is an excellent score.

Yes, I know "A Beautiful Mind". It is an excellent movie I really loved.

CA
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1284478 - 10/10/09 05:38 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
I remember the site Kathleen is thinking about. Unfortunately it hasn't been around in quite awhile- a couple of years, I think. It had an extensive collection and was a good place to "audition," literally, one's next piece.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#1284479 - 10/10/09 05:40 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6077
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: loveschopintoomuch
Does anyone remember that Classical Archieve web site that was devoted strictly to Chopin? You could play an exerpt from most of his compositions and download the sheet music, just twice a month, free. Otherwise you had to enrolled.

Thanks,
Kathleen


I have just found this: http://www.chopinmusic.net/home/
I haven't "tested" it yet, but it looks promising...

CA
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1284491 - 10/10/09 06:34 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
Chopin4life Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 194
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict


That is true, although I am not sure EQ is always correct. I scored up to 170+ on IQ tests and just above average on EQ, but I am VERY sensitive. I can't even listen to Chopin without crying. Because life wasn't meant to be easy, I have become sort of bitter sometimes, although I am still young, but I really like to help people and have even an email address specifically to help people, although I am really not a fan of emails because I am very busy with my projects.... But I like to help. I might have taken the wrong EQ test, maybe I can try a new one. Do you know of any good EQ test?


I am not very familiar with EQ tests, I just know of them, so I can't point you in the direction a good one I'm afraid. I think the reason they are not always accurate is because it is much more difficult to test than your IQ. With IQ, there is only one definitive correct answer to a question whereas with an EQ test, there may more than one solution for a situation, depending on the person that may be in the situation. So your answer may be right, but not the "correct" answer. I hope you understand what i mean. Unless i'm mistaken with how the test works?
_________________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." - Frédéric Chopin

"Hats off gentlemen, a genius!" - Schumann on Chopin

"Chopin is the greatest of them all, for through the piano alone he discovered everything" - Debussy on Chopin


Venables & Son 152

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#1284492 - 10/10/09 06:34 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6077
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
This is interesting about the relationship between creativity and mental illness, in particular bipolar disorder: http://counsellingresource.com/features/2009/09/21/creativity-and-mental-illness/
And this too: http://www.tryst3.com/issue2/article.html
And many more....

CA
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1284495 - 10/10/09 06:45 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Chopin4life]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6077
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Yes, I understand what you mean...
Besides, I think some people could "cheat" to have a high score on an EQ test as one cannot prove that the testee is answering the questions honestly... One would need a lie detector... wink

CA
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1284813 - 10/11/09 11:49 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
ChopinAddict:

ChopinAddict: WOW! Thank you so much for those sites. Some are better than others, but I think they will prove very helpful. I appreciate your taking the time to post them. And the article were right on!

As far as bipolar illness and creativity, we have had this discussion before. Frycek believes that Chopin suffered from this disorder, while I do not. But I have since changed my mind. I know when depression hits, there are not artistic juices flowing. So it has to be when a person is in the manic phase, that that creative phase takes hold. And we know that so many creative people refuse to take any medication to ease or subdue the ups and downs at bit because they know that the meds can and do often leave an individual emotional barren. Like a zombie is often their mantra. You may find this article interesting
http://www.oflikeminds.com/KayRedfieldJamison.htm

She suffered from the disorder all her life and yet managed to attain a high level of achievement. I read her book: “Touched With Fire and found it extremely hopeful as well as inspiring. She writes about some of the famous artists of the past and present who, undeniably, had/have this disorder, and it is amazing what they accomplished.

I know, quite well, the swings of mood. I once wallpapered 10 rather large rooms in our last home in 4 days. Then, of course, I didn’t touch the piano for many years because it represented frustration, disappointment and depression for me.

I wish you well and hope you can find a group of people with whom you will feel comfortable. But, for me, I think I find my own company the most understanding (if that makes sense).


BTW, I am certain that the level of my IQ was vastly overrated.


Edited by loveschopintoomuch (10/11/09 11:54 AM)
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1284817 - 10/11/09 11:51 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
I’ve never heard of an emotional IQ test. It sounds intriguing. But the problem with it might be the way it is interpreted. How can one person determine the mental and emotional stability of another? Especially if the person who is being tested is artistically-bent. I would think that a test on the maturity of a person would be more valid. But again, what is a mature and rational thought or action to me might be just the opposite to another. In the end, I believe it is impossible and even dangerous for one human to determine the level of sanity of another. Of course, there are those who are truly insane and out of control and are a danger to themselves and others. But I am referring to people who are a little or perhaps a lot different from the rest of society. Some of these individuals might very well be geniuses and prefer to be alone and free from outside interferences. I think that only then can they kindle that spark that dwells within.

My best and thank you all for your help. As always I can count on this thread to keep me informed and often entertained.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1284992 - 10/11/09 05:01 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6077
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Thank you for the link to that very interesting article, Kathleen!
As for the EQ test, the test I took was more about socializing than empathy, and I am really not a social butterfly. I am not interested in fair-weather friends and idle chatting (that must be why I have no friends...) I don't think it was well done....

CA

PS: I find my own company very intriguing too... smile
PS2: One day I will show you a link to my books and CDs... whistle


Edited by ChopinAddict (10/11/09 05:12 PM)
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1285073 - 10/11/09 07:06 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
ChopinAddict: You will ALWAYS thumbfind friends here...no matter what the weather.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1285208 - 10/12/09 12:53 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6077
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Thank you, Kathleen! heart

CA
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1285502 - 10/12/09 02:15 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1402
Loc: near keyboard, mouth open
ChopinAddict, unfortunately, the www.chopinmusic.net site is not all that it could be. The biographical information is so inaccurate that it makes one wonder what in the world the author was looking at. For example, it says that Our Guy's first published composition was his Rondo, at age 15, whereas of course it was a polonaise at age 7. The "Trivia Quiz" has similar problems. One could forgive a slip such as any of us might make, but when so much is so slipshod, it's hard to deal with. If one loves a subject enough to create a website about it, why not attempt to do it well? The site could have been great. I just took another look to see if anything had been fixed, and it hadn't as far as I could tell.

(Sorry. I know we discussed this before. And of course this person got himself together to create a website, which I haven't managed to do, so I have to give him credit for that.)

I have been following the discussion of IQ, EQ and the measurement of intelligence with great interest. I have too many thoughts about it to put here, but I would recommend the book that Steven told us about some months ago, The Talent Code, and also Outliers. Among other things, they have a lot to say about the kind of people ChopinAddict mentioned, who have very high measured intelligence but don't do much with it.

My daughter and most of her friends were labeled "gifted" in school. I got to thinking about how many different kinds of intelligence they represent among them. My husband, who teaches elementary special ed, often tells me about students who have tremendous deficits in some areas and great abilities in others. I don't think this is unusual-- his students are more dramatic examples, but we're all like that to some extent. So how "intelligent" is a kid who's a whiz at math but can't decode written words, or vice versa?

I don't know my own IQ. I was always in the 99th percentile on all those standardized tests in school, which proves nothing except that I was really good at taking a certain kind of test. I'm not so swift with puzzles and brain teasers, which are also sometimes used as measures of intelligence. And while I've had a superb visual memory, which helped greatly in getting through higher education, I seem to be developmentally disabled when it comes to memorizing music, which you'd think would be the same skill! I am working hard lately at learning to do it, and treating my brain like a small child, trying to be as compassionate with it as I would be with one of my own students. After all, my poor brain is trying, and telling it how stupid it is doesn't help!

The author of Outliers pointed out that beyond a certain minimum level of intelligence, it is only necessary to be smart enough, in the IQ-type sense. Then other factors and abilities become more important. I think it's safe to say that everyone who posts here is smart enough.

With regard to Chopin playing a long series of pieces from the WTC at a stretch from memory: The person who reported on this asked how he'd been able to do it, and he replied something like, "You don't forget a thing like that." Maybe not-- if you can ever manage to remember it in the first place!

Elene

_________________________
Semi-Pro Musica

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://elenelistens.com






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#1285643 - 10/12/09 05:57 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6077
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Yes, I found that site to be inaccurate too... frown I had just found it when I posted the link and had warned I had not tested it...
This is the danger of the Internet I think. There are heaps of sites full of inaccuracies and even blatant mistakes. I have written essays on poetry forms and preferred to go to the library to research them. I love libraries, but I am not an Internet fan...

CA
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1285662 - 10/12/09 06:36 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6077
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Re IQ, it is really all relative. I know somebody with an IQ of 160 who gave his Yahoo password to those scammers who write and say your account will be closed, please list all your details below etc. This person incidentally is very bad and tried to destroy me. He needed 9 years for a Bachelor's degree by the way... crazy
I now made music the centre of my life 3hearts , not IQ bah .
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1285735 - 10/12/09 09:17 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4393
Loc: San Jose, CA
Elene, do you not find that, as you practice music over and over, that memory is formed all by itself? I have always found that, with enough exposure to a subject, learning takes place whether I want it to or not. I've learned to be a little careful about what I expose my mind to; there are a lot of worthless and horrible things I wouldn't care to take in. Memory and learning are mysterious; something the mind, by its own inherent power, does.

I've been scoffed at on these forums as a lunatic by quoting this sutra by Pantajali... but I think he was onto something. "The mind, like a colorless jewel, takes on the qualities of whatever it is placed upon." It's not just about memory, if I understand it. The mind, by its own power and automatically, becomes like whatever (good or bad--- it will as readily do either) we focus our attention on. We don't have the power to directly command a lot of things in our feelings or awareness, but we do have the power to direct our attention to something we want to be like--- or to remove it from something we don't.

Maybe it's not helpful after all. Still, it is hopeful to think that our minds can take on the qualities of such a great one as Chopin, just by giving his works our attention.

It's just possible you have learned more than you realize.


Edited by Jeff Clef (10/12/09 09:20 PM)
_________________________
Clef


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#1286032 - 10/13/09 10:37 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Jeff Clef]
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Elene: Don't be so hard on yourself or your poor brain. I also have trouble memorizing certain pieces that have broken chords or arpeggios in the LH. So matter how simple they are, I just can't master them.

For instance:
In the first measure..it's
C#,G#, E, C#
second half of measure:
C#A, D#, C#
Next measure:
C#,G#,E,C#
same for second half
The third measure is
C#,G#,E#,C#
Same for second half
Next measure:
F#, A, F#, C#
same
Next measure:
B#, G#, F#, D#

It gets worse as it goes on. I've discovered that I have no problem when the chords in the LH are solid. It's when they are separated that I get lost. I believe this might be because I tend to see the "big picture" in everyday issues. I remember we had a study group for the 55.1, which is almost all chords in the LH, and I played it yesterday, almost all the way through, from memory. I hadn't played it for many months.

I am going to be like you and take each measure at a time and try to devise some memory clue to help me with the LH.

I must have been absent the day that Steven wrote about those books. I would love to read them. Can you give me some more info on them?

I am reminded of just what intelligence is whenever I watch "Jeopardy." Naturally, most of the contestants have had some college or are self-taught. But I believe, more than intelligence is at work; I believe it is memory and the ability to call up certain facts quickly. This might be intelligence, but maybe not.

I think we all can agree that many intelligent people lack common sense. Their heads are way up there in the clouds, and many are not "street-smart."

Jeff: I am sorry that you have been scoffed at. I hope it hasn't been on this particular thread. We just don't do that!! And I do believe that when our brains have been introduced to and dwell upon certain aspects, they can and often do, pick up some very negative qualities, especially when the mind is still forming. This is quite evident in how violent so many of our young people have become. And I blame this on the media...TV, movies and those frightful video games that they play. It comes as no surprise that they lose their sensitivity and their respect for human life. It's almost like the "me-generation" but more scary. And, of course, we have always had "gangs." And they often broke the law, but hardly ever was killing someone a prerequisite for joining.

I am losing my space again,
Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1286349 - 10/13/09 07:16 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
steveMac Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 154
Loc: El Paso, TX
It seems, from what i understand that a lot of inaccuracies or nonsense has been written about Chopin. Is there any particular book written about Chopin's life which stands out from the rest? I have an interest in learning more about his life.

While searching i came across an old article from the Independent. It was an interesting short read but i have no idea at this time whether or not the article is accurate ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/chopin-genius-or-monster-817909.html
_________________________

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#1286382 - 10/13/09 08:39 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: steveMac]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
No, it's not accurate at all, particularly about Chopin's character. It was written by a reporter wanting an angle quoting an extreme "scholar" wanting to make a name for himself by deconstruction. Get a copy of Chopin's letters and let the man speak for himself.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#1286391 - 10/13/09 09:09 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: -Frycek]
steveMac Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 154
Loc: El Paso, TX
Thanks for the reply. That is pretty much what i expected to hear. The book looks interesting, I'll pick up a copy from Amazon.
_________________________

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#1286493 - 10/14/09 01:35 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: steveMac]
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
Steve, I couldn't even bear to read beyond the first paragraph of that ignorant article, but I will pick out one sentence just to illustrate how deluded the author is:

a dandy who hated contact with the rest of the human race

Well, as a youth Chopin mixed with the peasants and countryfolk of his homeland which is where he garnered the rich store of folk music which later influenced his Mazurkas and, indeed, makes an appearance in nearly all his work.

Later, he had a kind and unsnobbish relationship with servants such as a maid at Nohant for whom he gave birthday and wedding gifts, and his own Irish manservant whom he considered to be more of a gentleman than many of the aristocracy.

He stopped in the street to speak to an old blind man in Edinburgh who was playing one of his works - just imagine the man's surprise and delight!

Chopin was constantly fascinated by the human race, making many warm or caustic remarks throughout his life which showed how observant he was.

He was very gregarious indeed, and when his health permitted socialised at parties on a daily basis or entertained in his own apartment.

He was fond of children, was selflessly kind to a young gifted pupil and went around on all fours on the floor to entertain his friend's baby girl.

When a childhood friend, also living in Paris, was seriously ill and dying, he personally nursed him and cared for him nearly making himself ill in the process.

Above all, throughout his life Chopin had a number of close friends who adored him and fondly remembered him for the rest of their lives when they outlived him. Many personal accounts exist of how well loved he was. Does that sound like a man who hated contact with the rest of the human race?
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#1286508 - 10/14/09 02:06 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Mary-Rose]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6077
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Yes, that sentence is pure libelling.... Like probably most of the rest of the article, but I won't read it....
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1286790 - 10/14/09 11:51 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1402
Loc: near keyboard, mouth open
SteveMac, perhaps you should read Jim Samson's and Jeremy Siepmann's biographies of Chopin. Also, while not a biography, Jeff Kallberg's Chopin at the Boundaries provides some interesting insights that you won't find elsewhere.

(And you could slog through our enormous thread here-- a lot of it is honestly quite fact-filled!)


Elene
_________________________
Semi-Pro Musica

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://elenelistens.com






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#1286883 - 10/14/09 01:45 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Hi steveMac and welcome:

I found it very difficult to read that article because of not only the factual errors but the misconceptions stated. It was a good thing the clip was relatively short because my boil started boiling after the first sentence.

There was, however, one sentence that I did like very much:

. Sand may have been heroically supportive in the early years of their relationship, but her eventual dismissal of him, after robbing him of his dignity, was breathtakingly callous. And his end had terrible pathos: dying destitute at the smartest address in town, publicly shunned by a lover to whom his devotion had never wavered.


I would also recomend Chopin, pianist and teacher, as seen by his pupils by Eigeldinger. This book contains first-hand, primary sources of those who knew him. You will find he was a very different person than the one presented in this article. Was he perfect? No. But one only has to listen to his legacy to realize that here was a man who felt so deeply that he could only express himself through the beauty and wonder of his music. And what music it is! There was no one like him before and no one like him since.

I really had to laugh at that one sentence that stated his works are largely unheard of today. WOW!! So wrong that it turns the whole article into trash.

My best,
Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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