First time poster here, so, first of all, hi to everyone!

Well, I've been looking for a digital piano a lot lately, and since I don't have much money at the moment, I cannot afford a brand new one. Used ones are quite hard to get by these days in our country.
So, finally, I found a decent looking deal (decent looking to me at least). It's a roland HP-102, used for 10 months, for 900€, coming togther with a bench. The seller said he was also willing to negotiate for the price a bit.

So, is it a good deal? If not, why not and would you suggest a apecific DP I should be looking into?

Also, I've been playing a Roland EXR-5s sofar, and have been very happy with it, and that's also one of the reasons why I would prefer a Roland over something else.

Thanks in advance!

I was able to find the specs on this model, which was discontinued a few years ago:

Roland HP102 Features

* Compact Progressive Hammer-Action Keyboard
* 20 tones
* 64 voice polyphony
* Authentic pedal design
* 3 pedals (damper / sostenuto / soft)
* Sound enhancement (grand space/dynamic emphasis)
* 2 track recorder
* 65 built in songs with music book
* LED display
* Adjustable split key mode
* Brilliance control
* 25W amplification

It appears to be fairly similar to the current RP-101 model, which is a very nice, entry-level piano. The RP-101 is about $1500 new, so this is a decent savings. A comparable Yamaha model would be the YDP-160, which is also about $1300 or so. You might also consider the Casio AP models. The AP-420 is probably around $1000.

That said, if you like Rolands, this wouldn't be a bad choice. I'd probably try to spend the extra money for a new RP-101, though.

Thanks Geoffk!
The thing is tho, that I allready was looking into The RPs and the YDP 160, but they don't seem to be available here yet! I tryed to look it up somwhere in Austria, but I only found one store with the RP 101 (for 990€) and none that had the YDP 160. I also couldn't find the AP-420 anywhere.

The RP 101 sounds pretty cool, but is around 100€ more, has a only 1 track recorder, no displayand less tones. Also, i would have to drive around 5 hours to go pick it up.
It has better keys tho, and half pedal recognition on the damper and soft pedal and damper resonance. hmmm

Also, I was looking into Korg Sp-250, which I could get for around 700€. What do you think about that one?

Is the YDP-160 available in Europe? Thomann.de lists the YDP-140, but not the higher specification YDP-160.

If you are willing to pay a little extra, you may be able to purchase a Yamaha CLP-320, or a KAWAI CN22.

Cheers,
James
x

^I haven't seen it anywhere...

Do you think those 2 are better than the Roland?

Kawai I'm not sure about, but I wouldn't say that the Yamaha is much better than the Roland. The CLP-320 and RP-101 are pretty close in spec.

The Korg SP-250 is actually quite nice. It's not a console, but the action and sound are very good, especially for the price. It is only 60 polyphony, though and there is no on-board recording. Those are the main drawbacks. The RP-101 is quite a bargain at 990 Euro though. Given the much nicer case, higher build quality, better spec and general superiority of the Roland, I'd spend the extra 290 Euro to get it instead.

If you don't care about getting a console, you could look at other slab pianos such as the Yamaha P-155, Kawai ES-6 or Roland FP-4 and FP-7.

With only 90 Euro difference between the HP-102 and RP-101, I'd say it's worth getting the new unit. The spec is slightly better and, of course, it's new, so they'll be a warranty and zero wear and tear.

To be perfectly honest, I do not believe any one of the four products mentioned is significantly 'better' (however we decide to define such a term) than another. There are strengths and weaknesses for each model, certainly, however considering the instrument as a whole, I would say the Yamaha, Roland, and KAWAI products all represent a great digital piano package at a relatively inexpensive price.

I could tell you which of the four instruments I personally believe to be the 'best', however this is irrelevant as I am not to the person who is going to be playing it - you are. Therefore, please play test each instrument thoroughly, and simply purchase the model you enjoy playing the most.

Cheers,
James
x

Well, bad news:
due to an unexpected twist, I will probably not be able to afford the HP 102...
So, any suggestions on something cheaper?
I don't care if it's a stage piano, or a console, it just has to have good action and a good piano sound. The recorder would be nice too!

I've seen another used one today, a Roland HP 236 for around 500€.
What do you think about that one?

The HP-236 dates back to January 1998. It has only 28 note polyphony--probably just 12 notes on the stereo sample--which is really not adequate. I strongly recommend against it.

The cheapest decent new DPs are the Casio PX-130 and Korg SP-250. The Yamaha P-85 is also cheap, but has a cheap action and 1-level sample, so I don't recommend it. Otherwise, you'd be looking for a used instrument.

Yeah, I am strongly considering the Korg one, becouse the reviews are quite good, and i also like the sound I heard from youtube videos.
Of course, I'm gonna go to a store and try it before I buy it, but I think it will be my new keyboard.
The only thing that bothers me, really, is that it has no recording capabilitys. And also, if there is a suplied damper pedal, would I need to plug it out in order to plug in a sustain pedal, or do they have sepparate holes?

You can access the Korg SP-250 specs and download the owner's manual here:
http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=134

The Korg SP-250 only supports a damper pedal (not soft or sustunato pedals.) There is a single 1/4" jack for the damper pedal cable. A decent quality damper pedal is included with the unit. Half-pedaling is supported.

You can always connect the Korg to a PC with MIDI and use software to record. That's a slight nuisance, but not very hard.

Wait, the Korg doesn't support a sustain pedal AT ALL?
I mean, I wouldn't even be able to plug in the one I have now?

You can read the owner's manual and User's guide. But, as I understand it, it only supports a damper pedal, not the other two (una corda and sustunato). I'm not sure if the damper pedal jack will allow a 3rd party damper pedal or is limited to the Korg pedal. But, in either case, I don't believe it will support a 3-pedal unit or any function except damper.

Casio has a 3-pedal unit available, but it has a propriatary jack, so you have to use the rather fragile 3-pedal unit sold by Casio.

Well, read the manual, and it doesn't really say anything about the sustain pedal...
BTW, what does the damper pedal actually do?

Also, is Behringer a good brand?

EDIT: ok, I'm really stupid, it would seem. I just now realized that damper and sustain is actually the same thing...
I kept confusing sostenuuto and sustain, silly me...

Hi Vid w,
In a three pedal piano, the damper pedal can also be called sustain pedal, which when pressed will allow the note(s) to continue to sound even when the key(s) are released. It affects the whole keyboard while the pedal is pressed. This pedal is the far right one. It is the most commonly used pedal.

The sostenuto pedal is the middle pedal which will only sustain the keys which are pressed at the same time this pedal is pressed. It does not affect the whole keyboard while the pedal is depressed. It is rarely used unless you are an advanced classical pianist- but even then...

The left pedal is the una corda and is also called the soft pedal. When pressed, it makes the whole keyboard quieter or softer sounding even though you are pressing the keys with the same force. Commonly used in classical playing, but not as much as damper/sustain.

Hope this helps!

Ah, thatnks EmmaElise! That really clafirfied things for me!

So, anyone have the SP-250? And if yes, how is it?

Also, can you record your playing via MIDI on your computer?
I mean, can you in any way use the original sounds from the keyboard to record your playing on your computer, or would I need a special recorder?

To record by MIDI, you connect the keyboard to the computer and play while running MIDI software. The computer records the keystrokes (notes, volume, etc.). Then you can play the file back and the MIDI signal will go back out to the keyboard and play using the original sounds. You can also save the MIDI file and play it on other instruments, using their sounds.

To do this, you need to buy MIDI cables and a USB to MIDI adapter. You also need to get MIDI software. Either buy it or download something free.

What if I wanted to record it and than play it on my ipod? Could that be done via the MIDI cable?

Also, what are some good brands of midi hardware and would you recommend any software? Preferably free?
Thanks!

No, a MIDI file is like a player piano roll. It's just keystroke information that you can't hear. To record it as an audio file, you'd playback the MIDI file on the piano, than record the output from that as an MP3 or something. This is what you'd have to do for most pianos that "record" internally also. They only store keystroke information and play it back.

So, I went to check things out today.
The Korg SP-250 was pretty cool, had great action, a bit on the heavy side, and nice voices. The keyboard was a little loud tho.
The other one i found was the Roland RP-101. amazingly, it sells for 745€, which is about the same price I'd havge to pay for the Korg Sp-250. The sounds were absolutely stunning, but the only problem I found was, that the action felt a little light. I didn't compare those two directly, but compared to the HP 20x series, the action of the RP-101 felt quite lighter, and the difference was even bigger compared to the clavinovas.

Also, what i found was, that Behringer has the most annoying excuse for hammer action ever, that the Yamaha p-155 feels awesome, and that someday, when I'll have more money and will be better at piano playing, I'm getting a Roland V-piano. lol

So, what do you think, which of those two would you suggest?
I would go for the roland right away, but I'm kinda worried that the action would be too light, especially complared to my teachers old upright with very heavy keys...

The funny thing at the store was, that I asked the guy working there what the difference was between the Rp 101 and the HP 201, becouse , I couldn't really remember. He looked at me as if I was stupid and said that the HP 201 had hammer mechanics and the RP 101 only had magnets to make it feel heavier...
lol

PS: I had my first lesson today, and it was awesome!
I've been learning from the internet sofar...

-
In the price range above mentioned don't ignore the KAWAI CN 22, for the price this has the most realistic touch of all digital pianos, i.e., closest to the touch of an acoustic piano IMO, it has the advantage of being a compact piano too. I've yet to try the new Casio Privia range however.
-

It's not available here...
I found the Cn-21, but it costs 1350€.
I could order it from germany, but it would still be almost 400€ more...

Sorry for the double post, but for some reason it won't let me edit the previous one...
So, i read that Roland RP-101 has the so called key touch function. Does that actually make the keys heavier, or does it just take a harder press to get the sound?
Also, still want to know which one would you recommend, the RP 101 or the Korg Sp-250

EDIT: Well, I called the dealer again, to make sure I was right yesterday... Turns out that they sold the piano and the stand (the RP 101) sepperately, and that the stand costs 155€, making it 900€ alltogether...
I'm thinking about waiting a bit longer and going for it anyway, when I save up a bit more...

I'm a little confused. The RP-101 is a console-type piano. So it doesn't really have a stand--it's a single unit like an upright. I can't imagine selling it in pieces.

Anyway, the RP-101 (the one that I know of) has Roland's PHA action. The HP-201 has the PHAII action. Both of these are similar, but the PHAII is newer and slightly better. Both are weighted hammer actions. There are no magnets or springs used.

The key touch function only affects the key response. So to make the piano louder, you have to hit the keys harder (or softer) to get a similar level of volume. It doesn't actually affect the weighting of the keys, which is built-in. Still, this does have the effect of making you play harder to get the volume level that you want.

If I could get the Korg and Roland for about the same price, I'd go for the Roland. Even at 900, it's no more than the used HP-101 you saw originally.

The RP 101 has the PHA alpha II keyboard, and I have to say, I was amazed at how good it felt! Way better that that of the FP4, and tbh even better than most of the yamaha Clavinovas. But as I said, it was kinda light, and since I'm quite new to all this stuff, I'm really not sure ih that could cause any problems in the future...

Also, they didn't sell separately, well not totally... You couldn't buy only one, you have to buy both, but they have them as two separate products, becouse roland ships it in 2 parts, one being the stand and one the actual piano...

So technically, the roland is still about 170€ pricier...
But I guess I could wait a little and scratch those up, since it's not used and it won't be gone after a couple days...

Really? The FP4 uses the same PHA alpha II action as the RP-101...

Cheers,
James
x

Yes, I realize that, but it was still more enjoyable...
The FP4 they had there had kinda shakey keys, might just because of the number of people tormenting every day tho...

So, I've pretty much decided to go with the RP 101.
Does really noone have any experience with it?
I surely don't want to waste 900€...

There was an RP-01 thread recently. If you search for it, you can read what people said. At least one person has one and he's very happy with it.

Omg, I must be totally getting on your nerves by now...
Sorry for that, I prommise it'll be over soon...
Well, I can't believe I missed this one:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/kawai_cl35_r.htm
The kawai CL 35...
I stumbled upon it today, read some specs, saw a couple of youtube videos, and concluded that it's a valid candidate.
I've searched all over the internet, and found zero reviews tho. Even on the pianoworld forums, when I searched, I got nothing useful really...
So, anyone have a kawai with the same keyboard? :P
I would like to know how it is, compared to Roland and Yamaha... Lighter or heavier?
The problem here is, there's no way for me to try it out, becouse it's not available in our country...
Thanks!