Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1283918 - 10/09/09 04:23 PM "Flat Fingered Hand Award"
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
Yesterday, I gave a spoken "flat fingered hand" award with great enthusiasm. "You have the most flattest fingers I have ever seen!" I just gushed about it with a big hoop-de-doo.

But, she got it. She looked at me with a grin, and then the grin fell, and she realized I didn't really mean it. Smart kid! She seems more determined to work on curved hand shape as lesson went along. I have said "curved fingers, please" over and over and over to her until I can't say it anymore!

She started lessons at age 5, and I got her as a tranfer student in October 2007. Her teacher already had her playing C and G7 chords in both hands and her joints just gave in from the pressure. She still has trouble playing efficiently and expressively because of very flat fingers. She just can't hold a curved finger position. She turns 9 this month and we've doing some exercises at lessons for her upper body as well as the hand for the past year. She is a petite little thing. We are working on "jigs" and fun children's songs like "Do Your Ears Hang Low" and "The Wheels on the Bus" and a book of technique exercises by early classic composer-teachers. We have previously played lots of slower, steady music. She is a bright learner and has a capable and musical mind.

The party store has these inexpensive little soccer/basketball/baseball types of squeezees in packages. It goes on the list for my next errand day. I gave away my last little soft ball for finger exercise yesterday to a 6 year old also with flat fingers.

Any ideas to share? Or comments to make? Could I be missing something?

Betty

Top
(ad) My Music Staff
Check out the new way to manage your music studio
#1283936 - 10/09/09 05:01 PM Re: "Flat Fingered Hand Award" [Re: Betty Patnude]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2622
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
I think he gets the "Flat Fingered Hand Award". smile
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

Top
#1284035 - 10/09/09 08:35 PM Re: "Flat Fingered Hand Award" [Re: jazzyprof]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
Horowitz and Liszt, what a combination!

Horowitz is gorgeous! His sound is mesmorizing to me and he makes piano virtuosity look easy to do.

Liszt is a black key composer and extended fingers play black keys nicely.

But, I'm talking about a little girl with very small fingers and elevations and octaves are out of the question for her. We are out in front playing on the white keys with F# and Bb as black notes. These keys need even slightly curved fingers to fit out in front of the black notes.

I'm thinking the answers to solving the problem are elsewhere in the anatomy besides in her shoulders and arms. A friend in piano world was telling me about things in ballet and in drummming that seem provident for answers like this - after all it's all about movement, yes? And elsewhere this week I read about yoga being used to teach young musicians good movements to work with in gesturing and in relaxing tensions in the body.

So, I'm thinking elsewhere is the answer to help this child discover things she can do. Fixed positions or freedom, it is all essential to the long-term developed pianist, but it must also be happening in children in their first attempts to play the instruments. The body has to work with the appropriate physical motions put into place by the thinking mind of the player. It's all connections in our body - a network of muscles and nerves, bones and joints, blood, tissue, cells....oh, my, I wish I had studied biology and physiology because it's very much a part of a musician's domain.

Betty

Top
#1284066 - 10/09/09 09:30 PM Re: "Flat Fingered Hand Award" [Re: Betty Patnude]
Mrs.A Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 155
Betty, you are correct. It is the biology of the hand and some have to work at it and some just naturally curve their fingers.

I close the lid of the piano and ask the student to play on the lid with their 2,3, 4,5 fingers I tell them to start by playing with flat fingers. I ask them to notice the muscles tension in their arms. They can feel how much muscle it takes to move each finger. They can fill the muscle tension up the whole arm. Physically it takes a lot muscle just to move one finger if the finger is flat. Then I have them play 2,3,4,5 with curved fingers. I ask them to tell me how many muscles they feel are used. They can feel that just the muscles in the hand and fingers are used.


I then ask them to try playing four imaginary notes on the lid again but quickly using both flat and curved fingers. They will notice how much more control they have and less muscle energy they use when playing with curved fingers. They just simply can not play quickly with flat fingers.

I also explain that not correcting flat fingers will prevent them from moving forward technically. They may learn on the theory, can read all the chords and the notes on the page and solve the rhythm problems but if they can’t move their fingers correctly they can’t play the more complicated pieces. .

I hope this helps
_________________________
Piano Teacher.
Church Music Director.
Kindermusik Instructor.
Mom to four boys.


Top
#1284144 - 10/10/09 01:27 AM Re: "Flat Fingered Hand Award" [Re: Mrs.A]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Generalizing terms like 'flat' don't really explain much. Do you mean the finger extensors are over active?
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


Top
#1284149 - 10/10/09 02:20 AM Re: "Flat Fingered Hand Award" [Re: keyboardklutz]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5454
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Generalizing terms like 'flat' don't really explain much. Do you mean the finger extensors are over active?


Huh??? Please translate into layman's terms.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

Top
#1284150 - 10/10/09 02:27 AM Re: "Flat Fingered Hand Award" [Re: AZNpiano]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Can't really as I don't know what Betty means. If your finger extensors are active they straighten your fingers out (make them flat?).
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


Top
#1288425 - 10/16/09 07:23 PM Re: "Flat Fingered Hand Award" [Re: keyboardklutz]
musiclady Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 431
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I have one 7 year old student who seems to have trouble with this, though his younger and older brother don't have a problems, though he seems to have been improving in that aspect in the last year. Maybe make a "Flat Hand" award?

Meri
_________________________
Clarinet and Piano Teacher based out of Toronto, Canada.Web: http://donmillsmusicstudio.weebly.com

Top
#1288771 - 10/17/09 01:43 PM Re: "Flat Fingered Hand Award" [Re: jazzyprof]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
I think he gets the "Flat Fingered Hand Award". smile


Yes! smile

Betty, speaking as a player and not a teacher, I prefer a "middle ground" between outright flat fingers and curved fingers. That allows me to assume either easily as needed.
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

Top
#1288773 - 10/17/09 01:45 PM Re: "Flat Fingered Hand Award" [Re: Horowitzian]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
The supreme stillness of the man!
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


Top
#1288776 - 10/17/09 01:58 PM Re: "Flat Fingered Hand Award" [Re: keyboardklutz]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
The supreme stillness of the man!

Yeah ... where are all the "flowery" arm movements? Proves that the experience is what it's all about.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

Top
#1288780 - 10/17/09 02:09 PM Re: "Flat Fingered Hand Award" [Re: eweiss]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Yeh, what's inside.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


Top
#1289127 - 10/18/09 04:37 AM Re: "Flat Fingered Hand Award" [Re: keyboardklutz]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5454
Loc: Orange County, CA
Well, there are instances when a flat hand actually works better, if not absolutely necessary, due to the limitations of the hand size vs. the chord/interval being played. Sometimes I even surprise myself how much flat finger I use in order to reach wide intervals or play certain chords.

But if the student uses flat hands/fingers _all_ the time, intervention must take place.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

Top
#1289357 - 10/18/09 04:17 PM Re: "Flat Fingered Hand Award" [Re: AZNpiano]
abcdefg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 67
Loc: midwest
Instead of buying balls you can buy balloons. You blow up the balloon to fit whatever size hand you need. The student can slip the balloon insider their hand and bounce around the keyboard.

Another thing I do with students when they are learning their five-finger patterns is to have them play up and down the pattern and then play all five-fingers in a cluster. We look at their hand and make sure that they are holding all 5 keys down, we look at their fingers and make sure they are round and that they can stay that way. We look at their knuckles and make sure they are not wobbly.

After they have gotten the idea of the round shape and the student can play the cluster, hold 4 keys down and then play one finger at a time. They can play fingers 1 and 5 and lift up fingers 2, 3, 4. You can work on any combination that needs practice.

Top

Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
79 registered (amv256, aprilmas, AZ_Astro, ando, 36251, AndrewJCW, 24 invisible), 1177 Guests and 21 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75908 Members
42 Forums
156880 Topics
2305114 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
MY NEW PIANO
by Jvmvidela
6 minutes 29 seconds ago
Here's a Paranoid Question:
by Paul678
Today at 01:19 AM
Are you must always make A4= 440?
by Maximillyan
Today at 12:55 AM
LEARN TO BURN! master class
by Dfrankjazz
Today at 12:22 AM
How does a composer/songwriter learn piano chords?
by amv256
Yesterday at 09:49 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission