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#201526 - 11/17/08 12:30 AM New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3?
Bihua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 175
Loc: Singapore
Dear all,

After months of choosing, I finally have 2 finalist. I like both. Given my situation and priority, which one do you think is a better choice for me? Thanks!

[Environment]
I am from Singapore. It is a hot and humid tropical country, 2 degrees north of equator. Rainfall is pretty high throughout the whole year (thunderstorms occur on 40% of all days!) Average daily humidity is around 85% and can reach as high as 90% early morning and evening. The piano will be in the living room. Not near any windows. Air con will not be on frequently. Heater for piano will be on all the time.

[Hailun 125]
A new Chinese made piano, supported by a dealer in Singapore. Warranty of 10 years.

[Yamaha U3]
A Japan piano, used in Japan, and exported to Singapore as second hand. 26 years old. Assume that I have engaged a technician to check and the piano is good condition to last for the next 20 to 30 years if well taken care of. Warranty from the shop of 5 years.

[Priority]
1. Able to hold & maintain present condition (including tone & touch) for as long as possible, at least 25 years. (Assuming both will subject to same amount of use)
2. Minimum additional repair costs. (Assuming the costs to tune and maintain either pianos are the same)
3. Resale value is not important.

Anyone who has any personal experience on either pianos, please kindly share with me too. Thanks so much!

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#201527 - 11/17/08 12:47 AM Re: New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3?
だまれ Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 207
Bihua,

I owned an U3 prior to my purchase of an SK3 (a grand piano), and it was an excellent piano. That being said, all the hoo-hah concerning “seasoned” wood (for tropical countries) didn’t quite worked – my U3 did have humidity problems (like the felt on hammers with mildew), even when the heater was on 24/7.

As the second law of thermodynamics does apply even to our beloved pianos, I would say 26 years old is really quite old, and I would personally purchase a new piano or a younger second hand.

If I were you, I’ll get a new Hailun. (Again, I might get fired for saying this, but it’s my opinion).
_________________________
Haha! You bet!

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#201528 - 11/17/08 01:37 AM Re: New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3?
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
Twenty-five years is too much to ask of an old U3 shipped to your torturous climate. I've played many of them, liked most of them, but your scenario is unrealistic.

The Hailun 125 will go further with proper care although 25 years is no sure thing there either.
I've played Hailuns and like them a lot. New to new, I'd give the edge to the Yamaha action, but I have no problem with the Hailun action. Have you asked around on the Adult Beginner in Singapore thread community?
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#201529 - 11/17/08 02:31 AM Re: New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3?
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
ppp,

May i check with you, as i'm interested to know more and investigate more into piano care, maybe i can reccomend to my client too - especially in our humid climate.

Did you own your U3 piano from day zero. Is there a thick velvet type full piano cover put on?


There might be a strong corelation here.

I'm seen some pianos with troublesome full height covers, like a thick skirt, have to push to a side to open the lid(upright piano). Inside, the action mould is quite good. This type of cover may be good at keeping the RH inside more constantly lower that ambient.

Some owners here just cover the top with some IKEA towels. This leave gap at the bottom kick lid and top lid side. Proper heated convection current is leak out, outside high RH air is being mix in. Inside mould condition is usually not so good.

The piano Bihua is mentioning is 26yrs living in Japan, mould and mild dew problem have not even started yet. So the judgement of how long it will be until climate problem should STARTs from the day it leaves the aircon showroom.

If proper care is taken then, problems can be minimize if not totally prevented. To 99% preventing mould and dew spot, a dehumidifier is needed.
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB

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#201530 - 11/17/08 02:33 AM Re: New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3?
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
some ppl put a dish of moth balls inside to help solve humidity issue, i wonder if it helps.

Any inputs from experienced piano lovers ??
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB

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#201531 - 11/17/08 04:01 AM Re: New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3?
だまれ Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 207
 Quote:
Originally posted by snoopycar:
ppp,

May i check with you, as i'm interested to know more and investigate more into piano care, maybe i can reccomend to my client too - especially in our humid climate.

Did you own your U3 piano from day zero. Is there a thick velvet type full piano cover put on?


There might be a strong corelation here.

I'm seen some pianos with troublesome full height covers, like a thick skirt, have to push to a side to open the lid(upright piano). Inside, the action mould is quite good. This type of cover may be good at keeping the RH inside more constantly lower that ambient.

Some owners here just cover the top with some IKEA towels. This leave gap at the bottom kick lid and top lid side. Proper heated convection current is leak out, outside high RH air is being mix in. Inside mould condition is usually not so good.

The piano Bihua is mentioning is 26yrs living in Japan, mould and mild dew problem have not even started yet. So the judgement of how long it will be until climate problem should STARTs from the day it leaves the aircon showroom.

If proper care is taken then, problems can be minimize if not totally prevented. To 99% preventing mould and dew spot, a dehumidifier is needed. [/b]
Hi Snoopy,

Nice to see you again!

1) I do own the piano cover (original from Yamaha - costs a few hundred dollars). I do use it all the time - except when playing.

2) I do own my U3 from day zero - if day zero means fresh from the Yamaha dealer (not fresh from factory).

3) I do not have experience with Japanese imports, so I would not comment on that.

4) I have started to use the dehumidifier NOW, after burning a hole in my pocket with the GP :p

your sincerely,
Vincent
_________________________
Haha! You bet!

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#201532 - 11/17/08 04:44 AM Re: New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3?
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
woah ... may your wallet hole heal soon, try rubbing some royal jelly? The dehumidifier system plus SP bills will disrupt the healing speed \:\(


Thanks for the input.
So the cover was on all the time, except during tunings, heater was working all the time.
So it seems like with a good cover and heater rod, the naugthy spores starts to germinate into dew spots whenever condition is right. Something that can't be totally prevent afterall using the normal system.

Well the GOOD thing about these problems is it gives the fussy owner a good reason to change piano !!! pls don't flame me... go easy, take it easy ..... kua kua .... i can feel a knock on my head from ppp


On the other extreme, once i had a customer complaining about dew spots on the hammer after only a short time. I open the hyundai 121, and aaaaaaa?? How come so cold inside like freezer??
Oh we turn on the aircon during the night?? I touch the alun hammer rail and there is condensation. Aiyo .. no wonder got dew spot problem ......

I think there should be a too sudden change in temperature in a room, like the classic spectacle foggy case where one walks from a cold place into a restaurant, suddenly cannot see anything \:\)


I often wonder this: if i replace the heater rod with a ventalation fan(with filtered inlet) to pump in fresh air to the inside of a upright piano, would it be better?

any biologist expert to help out here?
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB

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#201533 - 11/17/08 07:02 AM Re: New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3?
Bihua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 175
Loc: Singapore
I was curious and I tried a few experiment with my old Schubert in the past. Haha, I even repair one pedal myself. Anyway, coz my Schubert is cheap and old, so I am ok with it. But please do . And below are some of my findings. :-

1. Thirsty Hippo does not work! I put it inside the cabinet with heater on. In fact, is worse than not putting one. No sure if the water in Thirsty Hippo evaporates into the air again.
2. Putting a towel on top of the piano is useless. No difference.
3. Moth ball inside cabinet with heater on seems to work to prevent felt worms from growing. But not sure on dew formation. It is still inside my Schubert now.

So, ppp tested. Piano cover & heater does not work either.

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#201534 - 11/17/08 07:04 AM Re: New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3?
Bihua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 175
Loc: Singapore
I was curious and I tried a few experiment with my old Schubert in the past. Haha, I even repair one pedal myself. Anyway, coz my Schubert is cheap and old, so I am ok with it. But please do not try on your precious unless you are prepared to spoil it. And below are some of my findings:-

1. Thirsty Hippo does not work! I put it inside the cabinet with heater on. In fact, is worse than not putting one. No sure if the water in Thirsty Hippo evaporates into the air again.
2. Putting a towel on top of the piano is useless. No difference.
3. Moth ball inside cabinet with heater on seems to work to prevent felt worms from growing. But not sure on dew formation. It is still inside my Schubert now.

So, ppp tested. Piano cover & heater does not work either.

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#201535 - 11/17/08 07:20 AM Re: New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3?
tanjinjack Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 846
Loc: Malaysia
 Quote:

[Priority]
1. Able to hold & maintain present condition (including tone & touch) for as long as possible, at least 25 years. (Assuming both will subject to same amount of use)
2. Minimum additional repair costs. (Assuming the costs to tune and maintain either pianos are the same)
3. Resale value is not important.
On your three points, Hailun doesn't seem to lose to Yamaha at all. In fact, it has an edge over Yamaha on #1.
Unless the U3 is in superb condition or you really love the touch and tone of U3 more than Hailun, or else I don't see why you shouldn't choose Hailun.

My latest experience to some used pianos are really bad. All of the touch doesn't impress me and all of the tones are not nice. Of course, that might be the dealer's problem but those pianos are not a piano that I would ever purchase or recommend.
From your assessment, it seems the U3 is nice. So, get a tech to check it out and crack your head on U3 vs Hailun!

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#201536 - 11/17/08 07:36 AM Re: New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3?
だまれ Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 207
Hi Snoopy,

Just to add ... despite the mildew on the felts, my U3 is still playing very well!

Hmmm ... that wasn't the reason why I sold my upright. I wanted more dynamic range (just to disturb my enemies living upstairs - just kidding!), better tone and expression on my pieces, so I figured that an investment like this - for the love of good music - would be for a lifetime. Indeed, I'd rather spend on a good piano than a car. Well, in Singapore at least, a car can only go for ten years before we have to pay serious money to keep the ten-year-old car. Heard of the COE?

Not only are pianos more expensive in Singapore, cars seem to be ten times the price of those in the US. Now that's a thought.

Is the cost of living in Singapore THAT high?

BTW, Snoopy, I have never thought of giving you a knock (on the head?). I have always treasured your comments and experience as a technician. So, feel free to share your pearls of wisdom. \:\)

Sincerely,
Vincent
_________________________
Haha! You bet!

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#201537 - 11/17/08 09:52 AM Re: New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3?
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
gee thks, i may take off my helmet now \:\)
Thks for your kind understand n being "tar fang"

you know lah, in sinkapore everything with wheels want to tax ... COE(see ho eee) later grandpiano also want to tax, got 3 wheels right?

Dynamic range, expressive tone, that's enough to justify the purchase. \:\)

Talking about upstairs neighbour...
I would like to share. My upstair @#$^&*$#@ ROC tenants are giving me heeeeeeeell with elephant foot steps. I can hear their every pounding footsteps day night 12am 3am !$$%&$%#
It's like headache pounding in my head.
I complaint to HDB.. 2 times... the middle man came to listen while my upstair simulate the foot steps, they listen and agree its loud.
Landlord says can sms to the main tenants if noisy.... after while it's useless.

Know what i do? drastic stiuation requires drastic measures right. I use a stick and knock it with a 8kg weight i took from my 8"telecsope counter weight to pound at the ceiling.. no more give chance leow !!! basketball man !!
(of course i put felt at both end of the 3ft stick, if not my ceiling will damage) So far, they seems to get the message.

I read about infrasonic drives, i use to use my woofer facing up to blast pulse of intermittent 40hz, seems like thats the resonace. After a while, my ears also cannot take it, so i stop.


bihua, i think once the dew spot has started, you can slow it or stop it, but it still remain there, maybe must scrub off. Like what we see the the cloth wardrobes, those irky thing hv to be wipe off if you forget to change the hippo.
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB

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#1292093 - 10/22/09 08:40 PM Re: New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3? [Re: Bihua]
jaclyntay Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2
Hello hello,

coincidentally, i'm looking at these two models as well. A new hailun vs an old Yamaha U3 or U1, except the yamaha i saw is a little older.

we're tearing our head trying to decide on one, cos we're all worried if one day, should we decide to sell it off, would people buy a HL brand. i mean the fact is, i've never heard of it before, until i went to this shop. Maybe it's just me yeah? heh. -_-

btw i'm taking grade 7 next year and i'm from singapore as well smile

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#1292121 - 10/22/09 09:31 PM Re: New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3? [Re: jaclyntay]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13976
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
As a Hailun dealer I could be accused of being biased.

However, as a dealer knowing both these pianos intimately, I venture to say that in just a short time these type questions won't even be put before a hopefully more learned audience.

Hailuns today stand up very well - and then some - to all their Japanese competitors - 'new'.

This is a make just having gotten full attention by the Japanese on the Shanghei piano show - nobody is walking past them any longer looking the other way...

Their design, built quality and certainly 'tone' has come to the attention of those comparing respective models side by side - giving almost shivers to those comparing by 'price point' alone.

To compare new Hailuns to 25 old years Japanese will one soon day be recognized for what it is - a joke.

Today, some may keep asking these type questions - understandably so perhaps - but they must be left to answer theses type questions on their own.

Others have decided simply looking at the actual product before them.

The competition is.

There's nothing else to look at.

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (10/22/09 09:41 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
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#1292126 - 10/22/09 09:40 PM Re: New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3? [Re: Norbert]
jnod Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/09
Posts: 794
Loc: Toronto
Hailun in a heartbeat...
_________________________
Justin
-------
Bach English Suite #5
Scarlatti Sonata K141 . L422
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Schubert Impromptu opus 90 D899
Schubert Moment Musicaux opus 94 D780

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#1292188 - 10/23/09 12:58 AM Re: New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3? [Re: Bihua]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3301
I'd get the Hailun.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#1292234 - 10/23/09 05:08 AM Re: New Hailun 125 vs 26 yo Yamaha U3? [Re: beethoven986]
jaclyntay Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2
I went down again today and tried it in two different environments... today, it's with my friend who's a pro in all these.. we cant help but agree hailun is good. ok maybe good is an understatement, but u get what i mean. i think the touch is nicer, the tone is sweeter and clearer. like anyone would say, you'll want to keep going on and on. i guess the only thing now to worry is, should i play on a lousier piano in the future (let's say for exam), would i be able to produce the same sound as music compared to the hailun at my house? :p

in fact, yamaha's head office didnt speak too well of their own second hand pianos. Besides, a hailun only cost me a few hundreds more compared to a 20 over/ 30 year yamaha piano. without thinking, i believe strongly it's a much wiser investment.

anyway thanks all for replying!
i'll say hi to the hailun soon!

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