Hello all,

I'm currently learning a piece that has a section with several 16th note runs and I've noticed that the spots I slip up on as far as landing on the correct notes invariably is when I have to cross under with the thumb. I've tried slowing down the tempo, but it seems my technique may be the problem. I don't have a teacher and would like to know if there is a recommended method to improving this movement. Thank you.

Andy

Hi Andy,

There are many ways to practice this. With my students, I show them various patterns they can use to basically make an exercise out of the passage that is giving them trouble.

One way is: master the first 2 notes of the passage, then the first 3 notes, then the first 4 notes, etc.

Another: master the LAST 2 notes of the passage, then the last 3 notes, then the last 4 notes, etc.

Another: practice the passage stopping for a full beat on the first 16th of each beat, then stopping on the 2nd 16th of each beat, then the 3rd, then the 4th.

If you need more help with this and can't do regular lessons for some reason, I (and others here) offer lessons over Skype. Why not schedule a one-time session to get help with this specific issue?

Rachel's right on with her suggestions on getting runs down. However, it sounds like you're aware that the problem you are having is a technique issue. My suggestion would be that you focus on the bigger picture as well... Scales, scales, scales. Once you can play fluid smooth scales you'll find that runs in a piece of music come very naturally.

(and if you're dealing with chromatics practice the chromatic scale)

Rachel,

Thank you so much for your suggestions. I'll try these over the weekend and see if this helps. I'm so pleased that at least you didn't give a standard answer like "practice your scales." No offense Josh - I'm sure this would be beneficial, but I'd rather try something in relation to the piece rather than exercises.

Andy

You can also practice 16th note runs in rhythms, it's helps me greatly.

Rhythm 1: eighth, eighth, sixteenth, sixteenth (long, long, short, short)
Rhythm 2: sixteenth, sixteenth, eighth, eighth (short, short, long, long)
Rhythm 3: triplet, quarter (tri-pl-et, stop)
Rhythm 4: quarter, triplet (long, tri-pl-et)

Practice the run in all four rhythms (at a controllable speed), then go back to the way it is written.

However, practicing scales and arpeggios regularly will solve this problem for you as well, since you encounter scalar and arpeggiated passages in music all the time.

In the particular pieces that you're having this issue, is the crossing under portion simply a steps, or is it a greater interval?

I think I follow what you're saying. This would almost require re-writing the passage in order to practice the various thythms you've suggested. Perhaps I'll try a modified version of your examples. Thank you very much.

Morodiene,

Thank you for your reply. Actually the intervals vary in the section. It's a combination of half-steps, whole steps and thirds. Maybe this is why it's so tricky due to my thumb having to cross under varying distances throughout.

Ok, that helps clarify. I second the suggestion to practice in various rhythms.

Another thing which is quite easy to do is play a few notes before the problem area, then stop on the crossed under note. Figure out if you over- or under-shooting it in that passage, then do it again, compensating for the that over- or under-shooting until you are dead on. Then gradually incorporate it back into the context of the piece.

Also at this time you might as well make sure you aren't tensing up your thumb. That can also cause issues.

Random additional thoughts: I've seen students have trouble with crossings when they play flat fingered, or if they play too far forward on the keys. If you find yourself having to turn your wrist to cross, or your elbow flies out, one of these might be an issue, as your thumb has to stretch too far to reach the key. Try moving your hand back toward the fall board a fraction, and check your finger shape.

I doubt either of these are your problem, or you probably wouldn't even be this advanced, but since you said you don't have a teacher (who would see these issues as you play), I thought it wouldn't hurt to check.

Lots of great practice tips on this thread! I'm really enjoying participating on this forum.

Me too! Glad to hear your enjoying it. And had a bit of a look at your website too

Andy
Rachel's suggestions are really good, and because you are doing short little segments you can work them up much faster than you'll need. Then when you slow down to actual tempo you'll have more control.

Manndrew: I suppose, from your first post, that you haven't been given exercises to prepare the thumb when playing passages or scales where it is turned under the hand. You might want to investigate that procedure to improve your thumb action. The preparation of the thumb was of paramount importance when I was studying scales or passages that involved it either ascending or descending. It needs to be a habit so that after very conscious efforts at a slow tempo it is automatic in faster speeds.

If you already know how to do this,then there is no need for me to detail the procedure. If not, PM me and I will explain it.

Ralph

Manndrew,

I was just practicing and thought of this post! You know, are you sure you have the best fingerings for the passages that are giving you trouble? I ask because passing the thumb under on anything bigger than a 2nd can usually be avoided if you've really thought it through. Also, most of my adult students who were on their own for a while developed some really "interesting" fingering habits.

If you can upload a scan of your music with your fingerings written in (or email it to me), I'd be happy to take a look and let you know what I think.

Ralph,

I'll keep your suggestion in mind and PM you if I think it's necessary. Thank you.

Rachel,

I've experimented a bit with the fingering and think I can't do better than what I currently have, but I'll try and send you a scan.

Thank you everyone for being so helpful with this. I really appreciate it. Actually the last few practice sessions have gone a bit better. I slowed down much more to insure hitting the correct notes with a good even tempo and I made a conscious effort to relax my hand. I think I was playing a bit too fast and was "blurring" some of the notes mainly when using my thumb.

Thanks again and I'll check back if things slide again.

Andy