Hello!

I'm in the midst of piano shopping and yesterday I played a gorgeous new Shigeru Kawai SK3. It had a beautiful, rich, and mellow tone and was fabulously responsive. There aren't that many of these pianos around, and I've never played an older one. Would it sound and play this amazingly in 10 years? Or will I have to invest a massive wad of cash in 5 years to get it to stop shrieking? Thanks!

Johanna

I don't think your 5 year old Shigeru is going to be doing a lot of "shrieking". That seems a tad dramatic.

The reason you don't see any older ones is I believe because Kawai has only made them in this century (21st). I've also played a few and they are definitely built to a higher standard than the regular RX series. And yes, they are fabulously responsive. As for how they will age no one can say with certainty. I do believe with proper upkeep including regulation and voicing you should be able to keep it from shrieking.

What is this shrieking you refer to. Is that what old Yamahas and Kawais sound like in practice rooms where they get little maintenance other than tuning? With proper maintenance you should be able to keep any piano from shrieking, at least until the hammers are worn out. The question I have is whether you will consider the extra money invested in maintenance a massive wad of cash? (I wouldn't)

Dear Johanna,
Welcome to the forum. I would say that a gorgeous new Shigeru Kawai SK3 will, given the appropriate care, maintenance and playing, sound even more gorgeous in 5 years.

Of course the Shigeru Kawai range of pianos is relatively young, but if you consider how the well the older K.Kawai grands have lasted, you should have no qualms about the durability of Shigeru Kawai pianos.

The quality of the build and components is superior in the Shigeru Kawai pianos and owners have the bonus of the MPA's visit who tunes, regulates and voices the piano to utter perfection.

The longevity of any piano depends most on the environmental stability ie temperature and humidity control, maintenance and tuning and how the piano is played.

I have seen tier 1 European pianos in a sad state because of neglect and poor climate control after a even a few years.

Good luck with your decision!

Robert.

These pianos are of excellent quality.

You can't go wrong. Its a Shigeru, some would say it competes with Bosendorfer or Bechstein: if you trust those, trust a Shigeru.

check this out:

http://www.georgekolasis.com/shigeru-kawai.html

Although I'm not sure I agree with everything the gentleman in the above says, but I believe his descriptions of the pianos he talks about are accurate.

Also, you may want to avoid listening to dealers that say anything negative about their competition. For the most part they are protecting their own interests and trying to promote their own products through FUD (fear uncertainty, doubt.)

Also a great description of the whole wood versus plastic debate:

http://www.georgekolasis.com/piano-action-parts.html

George services my Shigeru and he is amazing. He is as passionate about piano technology as most pianists are about playing. His work with Shigerus is, IMO, easily on par with the work that the MPA's from Kawai provide. He is a real treasure to the Toronto area.

They're OK. Not in the same league as a Steingraeber for not dissimilar cash in Europe.

Damning by faint praise and then adding a price comparison that doesn't apply? That's ugly and can be applied to any brand any time. Watch: S&S D? Nice enough piano, I suppose, but for that money why not get a Fazioli?

The question was whether the Shigeru was going to 'shriek' after five years. What is your intention?

edit: spelling of 'shriek'

+1

It was not damning by faint praise, it was saying t the OP, in shorthand, "Take a wider perspective". I have played several and in my view the SK is mainly a marketing exercise that adds a premium price to a warmed up product. I like Kawai pianos (the first grand that I owned myself was a Boston) but I feel that people get carried away by things such as the master technician visit (which has a lot to do with marketing) and lose sight of what you really get for the substantial additional price.

The SK is priced to compete with some other very good well known brands. In Europe you can get a Steingraeber for very similar money size for size and the Steingraeber in my view blows away the equivalent Kawais, Yamahas and, for that matter much more expensive Steinways. If you read my posting history you will see that this is a view I have been expressing consistently for at east two or three years since I first played a 205. if I didn't have a Hamburg D on loan I would buy a 212.

US prices may change the picture.

A

...

AJB,

If price was left out of the equation I would personally also chose a Steingraeber over a Shigeru.

The MRSPs in the homeland Germany for Steingraeber are:
e.g. Steingraeber 170 = 48 k€; Steingraeber 205 = 62 k€

Also in Germany the MRSP for a Shigeru SK-5 (197 cm) = 40 k€

So I do not understand the above comment.
Should you have an address where I can buy a Steingreaber for a similar price as a Shigeru (size for size), you can always send me a PM.

schwammerl.

Well with your choice of words, you were damning by faint praise. You did not consider that the OP who was piano shopping may have already played a number of other pianos. Reread the OP. I think you might see what I mean.

And for the record, I'm not sure I'd prefer a Steingraeber over an SK series or vice versa only because I've never played a Steingraeber. But according to Fines publications the Steingraebers are 2 times the price of a similar size SK. And given this, even with available funds, unless the Steingraeber was absolutely hands down a better piano in all ways I'd probably go for the less expensive one.

So, I am confident that the OP has already taken that wider perspective, checked out the prices of the upper tier pianos, probably had a mild heart attack, and then realized what she can realistically afford, and found very few of them can be had for a more reasonable price.

I have played both the SK and the Steingraeber. In my opinion the Steingraeber does beat the SK hands down in all ways. Hence the reason for my purchase of the Steingraeber. I wasn,t looking to spend 2x the price of a simular sized SK,but after playing both of them i really had no choice.In my Opinion,the Steingraeber blew the SK out of the water.I always say "Quality is not expensive,it's priceless." Don't get me wrong. The SK is a good piano,but just can't compete with the Steingraeber.

Another perspective:
George Kolasis, formerly a concert technician with Bosendorfer in Austria as well as a tech for Oscar Peterson, Herbie Hancock and Lang Lang rates the Shigeru as one of the four best pianos in the world along with Hamburg Steinway, Bosendorfer, and Fazioli. I would think that *his* opinion on the matter carries some validity.

I read his article. His impressive cv, his wealth of experience and the eulogies of his famous clients about his work and knowledge of pianos, certainly give his opinion on Shigeru Kawai enormous credibility.

Best wishes,

Robert.

obviously,he has not had the opportunity to play a Steingraeber.

:-)

I believe it was Mark Twain that said "we are entitled to own opinions, just not our own facts". Terry is making is opinion on Steingraber sound like a fact. We all have out different opinions when it comes to pianos, but as far as George and everyone else that has posted, dollar for dollar you PROBABLY (note the caps) get a better bang for our buck with the Shigeru, even without price MAY be a superior piano. I have always thought that part of the reason Shigeru wasn't compared to Bosendorfer etc. was just because of its lower price point. I think people would take it more seriously if it were the same prices as those 1B tiered pianos.

An unstoppable force, Louis, has met an unmovable wall, Terry. Which will prevail?

In his mighty fortress of European supremacy Terry has with laughing ease shrugged off the slings and arrows of those Yank peasants Mason, Hamlin, and Walter. How could some silly ninja have any hope of scaling his impregnable walls?

Ah, but young Louis is hardly a ninja. He is the hero of our day, a modern Red Baron flying in his unmatched SK jet. In his short career he has already dispatched many an erstwhile foe from both sides of the ocean. Whether old veteran fighters like Baldwin, Grotrian, or the venerable Steinway and his progeny, or newer, faster fighters like Signor Fazioli, all have fallen to Louis’ superior speed.

Will young Louis prevail in ascending to the Olympian heights of Terry’s tower, or will Terry smile on as Louis, in flaming ruins, realizes the hubris of his assault on the topless walls of Terry’s fortress?



Dan

A classic post!

Poor Johanna, she posts a fairly straightforward question and the answers have certainly veered off in different directions (I did laugh quite a bit when I read Dan's post! :))
Obviously everyone has some passionate ideas about what their idea of the "best" piano is, but Johanna's question is pretty specific to the SK. I purchased an SK3 this summer, and I found the price point compared to many European brands and Steinway to be much more suited to what I was willing to spend. I agree with AJF that George Kolasis' opinion is pretty significant, given his vast experience. He has tuned and voiced my SK3 and I was very honoured to have him in my home. He is just wonderful. I also would find it hard to believe that George has never played a Steingraeber. He lived in Europe for about 15 years and travelled all over the world for Bosendorfer in the past. But, as interesting as that may be, none of this has to do with the Shigeru itself. I think that if you really like the way it sounds and feels, you really can't go wrong. I fully expect that, with regular care and maintenance, it will sound even BETTER in 5 to 10 years, and will definitely not "shriek" (whatever that means, I think it means sounding really harsh and unpleasant).

Johanna,
If it fits your budget and you've done all your investigating into other pianos within your price range, then it is worth a deeper look.

I am sure you can't go wrong with the SK. It's a wonderfully crafted piano. I've played the SK along with many other fine instruments. It is clear why people like to play the SK.

I think the schrieking sound to which you refer might be that as a piano is played over time, the hammers develop deep grooves which increases their hardness, hence the tone that eminates from a hammer strike to the string will sound more metallic, etc. Voicing is one part of piano care and having a technician who can properly voice a piano is one of the most valuable aspects, and an art unto itself.

Of all the pianos I've been fortunate to play, the SK piano is one of them that provided me with an memorable experience when playing - fantastic touch-weight, and responsiveness. It is in there with the best.

If that piano "speaks" to you when you play it, look no further.

Glen

Hailun to S&S, SK to Steingraeber...


What have we learned ? NOTHING. We are just at it again with "mine is better".

Just Amazing.

Well, Steingraeber is probably the apex of piano making. It's a unique company in every respect. However, the Shigeru seems to me to be better value for the money unless you can spend lots of money on a piano. A Shigeru is already a high-end piano, it's no beginner's piano but rather a concert-grade instrument.

Here's another take on the situation: A very talented pianist in possession of a Shigeru is a much better combination than a bad pianist with a Steingraeber. In other words, a Shigeru will afford you all the possibilities to develop your talent to the fullest. It's a great piano. It's not a limiting factor in your play. And it'll hold up well, I am very much convinced. The sales price is rather reasonable, I think.

I say this as the owner of a "distinguished" European piano, which, I am sure, some people here would gleefully enjoy pointing out that it is not topmost among the distinguished crowd. However, it really comes down to what you need and what satisfies you. This tier bartering gets on my nerves.

if you check out his website he sites other top pianos he's considered such as grotrian, c. Bechstein and yes, Steingraeber. Yet he still puts Shigeru on top. This is just one man's opinion but an interesting question arises: Can you still love your Steingraeber (or Bechstein or Grotrian etc) every bit as much knowing that a true expert, with far more experience and knowledge than most of us on this forum, ranked a piano from Japan that costs about a third as much as a 'better' piano?

I have seiler, not happy they go out of busines, but shigeru my next choice, sk-7 is very good, i try steingrabber and my son say it nice but so much money. very sharp sound in treble, not as suttle as shigeru. just my opinion.

bad dealer with steingrabber in our area.

I may trade my seiler for shigeru if i get good deal.

I not have been here for a while but good informaiton. some not so good too.