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#1293361 - 10/25/09 12:35 PM Yamaha P85 vs other brands
Milk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 39
Hello,

Looking for a digital piano in the range of 700euros +/-. I've looked at reviews online about the Yamaha P85 and they seem to like it. I'm wondering if there are other stage piano's in this price class and worth concidering?
Also wondering if spending 1000euro will get me a big boost in performance or the quality/price is rather lineair.

Gonna use the piano to learn how to play (played 2 months about 8 years ago..and thats it). If I were to say 1 point which affects my decision the most its the quality of the sound.

ps. stage piano == digital piano, correct?

Thanks


Edited by Milk (10/25/09 12:38 PM)

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#1293384 - 10/25/09 01:12 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Milk]
Vid_w Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 188
Loc: Slovenia
You could try the Korg SP-250, the Casio PX-130 and the Kawai CL-25.
Those are also in the same price range.

1000€ vs. 700€ should bring some improvement, but not that much.

also stage piano is a slab type piano, usually with less good speakers, and maybe even worse action.
digital piano is a console type, like the clavinovas.

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#1293390 - 10/25/09 01:18 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Vid_w]
Milk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 39


The way I see it a digital piano isnt that big aswell? Do my eyes decieve me?

I dont need to take the piano with me, but I dont have alot of space in my house. Is a digital piano small enough?(the image makes it seem like its almost the same size as a stage piano.)

Also are you saying a stage piano of 700 euro would be worse then a digital piano of 700 euro, except the fact that a stage piano is portable?


Edited by Milk (10/25/09 01:20 PM)

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#1293403 - 10/25/09 01:29 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Vid_w]
Bob M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/09
Posts: 208
Loc: North Carolina
Milk,
When I was shopping, the Korg SP 250 was reviewed as having a better speaker system than the others so far mentioned, but some did not like the piano samples. It also comes with a stand and petal. Most who have "stage" DP's have observed the sound is improved with a decent set of headphones. My Yamaha NP30, which I think uses the same piano samples as the P85 sounds great thru a CambridgeSoundworks 2.1 computer/media 3-piece sound system ($99), out of the headphone jack. If you already have such a 2.1 system, it should also improve....as long as it has a "pot" to cut back the bass from the subW--because the bass is up at the headphone jack.
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Charles Walter Model 1520
Yamaha NP 30, NP 11, PSR E333

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#1293409 - 10/25/09 01:35 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Bob M]
Vid_w Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 188
Loc: Slovenia
Well, digital pianos aren't THAT big, especially not the lower priced ones.
The lower priced ones are usually just like a slab piano on a stand really, the higher priced ones can get quite big tho, for instance, the Yamaha CVP series has a huge upper part, as it needs the space for all those buttons...

No, I'm not saying a stage piano would be worse than a DP, stage pianos are usually lower priced anyway.

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#1293426 - 10/25/09 02:02 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Vid_w]
Milk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 39
I dont need good boxes, I'm also buying a cinema set where I can put my piano in. (Or well I'm hoping it works like that :p).

Thats why my main concern is that the piano has a good sound.

Seems that most people would choose between the yamaha p85, Korg SP 250, casio cx 130/330? Though I heard the p85 has some issues with his "hammer system", the keys dont feel as they should? correct?



Edited by Milk (10/25/09 02:08 PM)

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#1293797 - 10/26/09 05:45 AM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Milk]
Milk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 39
I dont know if someone has the knowledge about this, but I'm also wondering if the P140 is alot better then the P85? P140 is 1000euro, P85 700euro. I heard the P85 has 64 sounds instead of 128?

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#1293827 - 10/26/09 07:31 AM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Milk]
Vid_w Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 188
Loc: Slovenia
The p 140 has the much better keyboard, the Graded hammer EFFECT, whilst the P85 has the Graded Hammer STANDARD. The standard one is much lighter and feels quite cheap. The p 140 doesn't have that good speakers tho, but that shouldn't be a problem if you were to hook it up on the sound system.
Also, it has 3 samples for each key, so the dynamic changes more like on a real grand, while the P 85 only has 1 sample and when you hit it harder, only the volume increases.

Also, you should try before you buy, becouse sound and action are very subjective things, and you might end up hating something others like...

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#1294319 - 10/26/09 06:57 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Milk]
Martin C. Doege Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
Originally Posted By: Milk
I dont know if someone has the knowledge about this, but I'm also wondering if the P140 is alot better then the P85? P140 is 1000euro, P85 700euro. I heard the P85 has 64 sounds instead of 128?


No, the differences are not that big. Here in the US, the P-85 is $600 though, so it's a much better deal than in Europe.
_________________________
Yamaha P-85; Pianoteq Pleyel

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#1294334 - 10/26/09 07:18 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Milk]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: Milk
If I were to say 1 point which affects my decision the most its the quality of the sound.


"Multi-layered sound means each key is recorded when struck lightly and then when struck hard. Real pianos make a different sound, not simply louder, but different when you strike the keys harder. Some digitals have four layer sampling where each key has four samples, some cheaper digitals use only one "layer".

The Yamaha P85 is a single layer sample, the P140 has (I think) three layers

the newer P-155 uses four. I think the p140 is discontinued, replaced by the p155

Casio and korg are priced about the same as the p85 and have multi-layer samples. Even so some perople prefer one over the other.

If the goal is to learn I think the keyboard quality matters more than the sound but there is no agreement of opinion on which is the best keyboard.

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#1294338 - 10/26/09 07:24 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Vid_w]
Milk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 39
Oke sweet, Ill probaly go for the P140 then for digital piano.

I'm wondering what the difference is between a digital piano and a keyboard? THe way I see it a digital piano focusses on making the piano sound come out as good as possible and a keyboard has alot of sounds but the piano doesnt sound quiet as good?

Are there keyboards which have the same sound as a digital piano?

*So many piano's/keyboards* laugh

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#1294396 - 10/26/09 09:10 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Milk]
marimorimo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/02/09
Posts: 429
Loc: Kingdom of Nodame
Well I think technically the term "keyboard" is for anything that has keys in it, which includes those cheaper toy-like keyboards, digital pianos, acoustic pianos, (and maybe even organs and harpsichords). But nowadays people seem to interchange the owrds "keyboards" and "synths" to mean the same thing. Keyboards/synths usually have unweighted keys. They may also have inferior piano samples (maybe just synthesized), but there are famous and great sounding keyboards out there.
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#1294920 - 10/27/09 04:05 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Milk]
Martin C. Doege Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
Originally Posted By: Milk
Oke sweet, Ill probaly go for the P140 then for digital piano.

I'm wondering what the difference is between a digital piano and a keyboard? THe way I see it a digital piano focusses on making the piano sound come out as good as possible and a keyboard has alot of sounds but the piano doesnt sound quiet as good?

Are there keyboards which have the same sound as a digital piano?

*So many piano's/keyboards* laugh


I'd definitely try out the P-85 and P-140 (or P-155) for myself if I were you. Don't decide on specs (or forum opinions) alone!

The difference between keyboards and DPs is that DPs generally allocate more memory to the piano sounds, so they tend to have fewer sounds overall. (There are exceptions like the YPG-635.)

OTOH, even entry-level keyboards tend to have hundred of sounds, but the piano is not as good. And then there are crossover instruments like the NP-30 which feels like a mix between a DP and keyboard but uses the same samples as the P-85...
_________________________
Yamaha P-85; Pianoteq Pleyel

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#1295452 - 10/28/09 01:24 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Martin C. Doege]
Milk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 39
Well the main problem is, I never played before as I stated earlier. (except 8 years ago for 2 months).

I dont know if I will end up playing only the piano, or I wanna create alot of sounds with different instruments (keyboard).

The way I see it keyboards seem to have lower specs in sound, 64 polyphones + graded hammer standard. Instead of digital piano's , 128 polyphones + graded hammer effect.

I want both to be honest :p

I do see 1 piano that seems to fit the picture, or well series. The Yamaha CVP 40x , which seem to merge a very good piano sound + alot of sounds. Too bad it costs 1900 euro and isnt a stage piano. I did open up my budget to 1000-1200 euro, but 1900 euro seems too much since I dont even know if ill end up loving it.

Does anyone know a keyboard/stage piano which have both good piano sounds + properties of a keyboard that costs 1000-1200 euro?

Wasnt sure if I should post it here or open a new post, since its kinda offtopic.

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#1295506 - 10/28/09 03:04 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Milk]
slowpogo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/14/06
Posts: 116
Loc: Midwest, US
For what it's worth, I've had a Yamaha P-80 for about 6 years. It would make sense that the P-85 is its successor.

The P-80 is very good, and was about US$700 at the time I bought it. It doesn't have speakers; it's more of a stage piano. I will say that it really sounds like it has more than 1 velocity layer. When you really hammer a note, it has a very realistic "hardness" that is definitely different than the normal sample. Soft notes sound different too. The action is very good, if the slightest bit stiff, like a huge grand piano.

I guess my point is, I assume the P-85 is at least as good as the P-80 in terms of piano sound quality, and I think the P-80 is pretty darn good. When I first played it with headphones on, the sound was so natural and realistic I thought it had speakers, and actually took the headphones off only to be surprised. Sounds like a corny endorsement, but it's true.

The P-85 also adds several more features, like three pedal support, and half-pedal support. Again, I have not played it, but I know the P-80 very very well - under the assumption that the P-85 is at least as good and most likely better, I would say for a beginner who doesn't have the finicky expectations of a long-time-pianist (no offense milk) it should be more than adequate, and give you many years of enjoyment. Technically *I* am a finicky long-time-pianist, but I still find the P-80 very adequate for late-night practice (Yamaha U1 upright is the usual instrument).


Edited by slowpogo (10/28/09 03:08 PM)

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#1295516 - 10/28/09 03:24 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: slowpogo]
galaxy4t Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 853
Loc: Lakewood, CA
Milk,
Have you considered anything from Casio? You might look into the PX 410r or PX-330. Both offer additional sounds in addition to piano voices. The new PX 330 has a very good piano with a 4 layer sample. It's much better than the P-85 and in the league of the Yamaha P-155. The PX-410 is similar to Yamaha YPG 635, but it does have lower polyphony at 32. However, there are a number of nice sounds on this, and if your looking at accompaniment, there is a lot to like here. You can do a search on Youtube where there are demos of both these boards. The touch on the P-85 is one of it's downfalls in my opinion. It uses Yamaha's cheapest action (GHS) which is not much better than the unweighted action on a synth.

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#1295527 - 10/28/09 03:42 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Milk]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: Milk
...
Does anyone know a keyboard/stage piano which have both good piano sounds + properties of a keyboard that costs 1000-1200 euro?..


Maybe the Casio CDP330.

It has hundreds of sounds, built-in rhythm section 16-track recording an so on.

It seems that for a fixed price you can get some nice features but then you don't get something else. To get the best of everything you have to spend over $3K

Someone told me when I was shoping for a camera tripod that I could have (1) light weight, (2) low cost, (3) sturdyness but I'd have to pick only two of those qualities and give up one. I think we have something like this with pianos.

One other option. Any digital piano can be connected via MIDI to a computer. Then the computer can perform any function or sound you like. So you might just get a basic DP with a very good keyboard action and decent piano sounds and then if you want auto-accompaniment, good saxophone sounds and music notion let the computer do that. The down side of using a computer is the added complexity so you do not want to be dependent on a computer for basic playing.
But like the tripod, with any fixed budget you are going to have to figure out what you can live without. The computer option does give you the option to add some features at a later date.


Edited by ChrisA (10/28/09 03:45 PM)

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#1295540 - 10/28/09 04:07 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: ChrisA]
galaxy4t Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 853
Loc: Lakewood, CA
I would recommend staying away from the CDP line in Casio. These tend to have loud action where the keys clack as they return to their rests and the HL sound source isn't as good and has limited polyphony. I would stick with the Privia line.

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#1295561 - 10/28/09 04:21 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: galaxy4t]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Sorry typo. I intended "px330".

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#1295739 - 10/28/09 10:27 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Vid_w]
LesCharles73 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 739
Loc: Denton Texas
Originally Posted By: Vid_w

also stage piano is a slab type piano, usually with less good speakers, and maybe even worse action.
digital piano is a console type, like the clavinovas.


you are correct on the stage piano distinction, but incorrect that a digital piano is a console type. Both stage pianos and console pianos are considered digital pianos.

Many times they will have similar internal parts in a different housing, and the stage pianos will not always have a "worse" action. Case in point, Yamaha CP300 and Roland RD700GX.
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#1296219 - 10/29/09 06:08 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: slowpogo]
Martin C. Doege Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
Originally Posted By: slowpogo
For what it's worth, I've had a Yamaha P-80 for about 6 years. It would make sense that the P-85 is its successor.


The P-85 is actually supposed to be the successor to the P-70. (Yes, I know, Yamaha's product numbering system doesn't make a lot of sense.)

But then again, you only have the choice between the P-85 and P-155 right now, so I think the P-85 is also supposed to replace the P-60/80/90 in a way, i.e. it's the current P-"sub-100". I do believe it's a lot lighter than the P-60/80/90 though.
_________________________
Yamaha P-85; Pianoteq Pleyel

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#1296477 - 10/30/09 07:10 AM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Martin C. Doege]
RDW Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 101
Originally Posted By: Martin C. Doege
Originally Posted By: slowpogo
For what it's worth, I've had a Yamaha P-80 for about 6 years. It would make sense that the P-85 is its successor.


The P-85 is actually supposed to be the successor to the P-70. (Yes, I know, Yamaha's product numbering system doesn't make a lot of sense.)


One significant downgrade from the P80 is the quality of the keyboard action. The P85 has a 'Graded Hammer Standard' keyboard like the P70. The P80/P120/P140/P155/CP33/CP300 have 'Graded Hammer Effect' boards, which IMHO are well worth the extra money.

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#1296943 - 10/30/09 11:19 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: RDW]
Martin C. Doege Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
Originally Posted By: RDW
Originally Posted By: Martin C. Doege
Originally Posted By: slowpogo
For what it's worth, I've had a Yamaha P-80 for about 6 years. It would make sense that the P-85 is its successor.


The P-85 is actually supposed to be the successor to the P-70. (Yes, I know, Yamaha's product numbering system doesn't make a lot of sense.)


One significant downgrade from the P80 is the quality of the keyboard action. The P85 has a 'Graded Hammer Standard' keyboard like the P70. The P80/P120/P140/P155/CP33/CP300 have 'Graded Hammer Effect' boards, which IMHO are well worth the extra money.


I agree that the CP-33 feels very different (much heavier) from the P-85, but between the P-85 (GHS) and the P-155 (GHE) I don't notice a lot of difference. Both are pretty light in touch, but in a good way. So there must be something else going there besides the difference between GHE and GHS...
_________________________
Yamaha P-85; Pianoteq Pleyel

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#1297046 - 10/31/09 06:12 AM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Martin C. Doege]
kalai1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 39
Loc: Big Island of Hawaii
Hi I have used the P80 and the P90 and I can hear a big difference in the sound quality between the two, I like the p80 much better, the p90 seemed to have a different sample or somthing, I could never get the same sound quality that I get from the p80, you can hear my p80, I just posted a piano piece of mine in the members recordings forum.
And since I know nothing about chords and I can't read music I only play by ear, so I know I can hear a difference, I sold the p90 because I did not like the sound.
Yamaha is also very good about standing behind there pianos, I got a free keyboard when my key broke.
I am sure other pianos are just as good as the p80 but I only tried the p80 and p90 and I say go p80 if you can, aloha.

Chris

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#1297050 - 10/31/09 06:25 AM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: kalai1]
Boira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 472
Loc: Barcelona
My first piano was a P140, and I've been very happy with it.
After upgrading to an acoustic, I still use it for night practice.

If I'd have to choose between the P85 and the P140, I'd go for the P140.

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#1297288 - 10/31/09 03:19 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Boira]
Relica Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 17
Loc: England
Interested thread this. I am about to buy a Yamaha P85 and wasn't aware that Yamaha had different quality levels relating to the graded hammers.

I am not in a position to try before I buy as I live a long way from the company I will be buying from. Is the action close to that of an acoustic piano? Also I have the ABRSM piano grade one; how far would I be able to progress with this digital piano if I wanted to take further grades?

Thanks

Apologies to the original poster for jumping in here!


Edited by Relica (10/31/09 03:20 PM)

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#1297332 - 10/31/09 05:24 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Relica]
Crown Weddings Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 1
Loc: GA
My first time on the forum. I saw a conversation earlier about a yamaha clavinova cvp - 7. I can't find it now to ask but maybe you could point me in the right direction. I just bought one for a great price but it doens't have a power cord. Do you know where I might be able to get one?
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#1297973 - 11/01/09 09:47 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Relica]
Martin C. Doege Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
Originally Posted By: Relica
Interested thread this. I am about to buy a Yamaha P85 and wasn't aware that Yamaha had different quality levels relating to the graded hammers.

I am not in a position to try before I buy as I live a long way from the company I will be buying from. Is the action close to that of an acoustic piano?


I would definitely want to try different instruments before I decided which one to get. Can't you visit another store that has a wide selection?

In principle Yamaha has GHS, GHE, and GH3, as well as NW, but there seem to be other differences at play, i.e. not all GHE instruments feel the same. I think overall the Yamaha actions feel quite realistic, but there are definite differences in terms of key weight, surface material, etc. So try before you buy! (Or at least make sure you can return the instrument if you don't like it!)
_________________________
Yamaha P-85; Pianoteq Pleyel

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#1304531 - 11/13/09 03:39 AM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Milk]
Milk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 39
Hey,

Today my quest is gonna be over(or about to begin?).

I've narrowed my choices down to P140(1 showmodel left) + Roland EP-880 + CLP 320

I figured out it doesnt need to be a stage piano since I'm not gonna perform/take it with me any time soon and the size difference between a stage and home digital piano isnt that much.

I'm wondering what your experiences are, does the CLP320 produce the same sound as the P140/P155? Would the CLP320 give more quality for the same money? (P140 = same price as CLP320)

Thanks

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#1304744 - 11/13/09 12:04 PM Re: Yamaha P85 vs other brands [Re: Milk]
Vid_w Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 188
Loc: Slovenia
CLP 320 speakers > P 140 speakers

Also, I think the Roland doesn't have Progressive Hammer action, might be wrong tho

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