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#1294345 - 10/26/09 07:35 PM G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1336
Loc: Maine, U.S.
I've just posted the "Chant No. 1" from Catoire's Chants du crepuscule, Op. 24, completing the set of four. (The other three pieces also appear here in Member Recordings with links to those recordings.) I hope you'll like this piece. Link:

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=35473.0


Edited by RachFan (10/26/09 07:36 PM)

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#1294426 - 10/26/09 09:43 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: RachFan]
heidiv Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 579
Loc: piano bench, usually
I don't have the score, but wow, this sounds like a difficult piece. You have such superb control of dynamics and a wonderfully expressive touch. Catoire's music is so interesting to listen to because it's not strictly structured yet it doesn't sound random either. I find your Catoire recordings dreamy and intoxicating. Great job, and congratulations on completing the set!

Thanks for posting and bringing deserved attention to this underrated composer.

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#1294431 - 10/26/09 09:50 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: heidiv]
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1336
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Hi heidiv,

I'm so glad you enjoyed this piece as well as the Catoire repertoire more generally. He was a wonderful composer.

Also, thanks so much for your kind comments on my playing. There are a couple of errors in my recording, but they're not at all distracting. And you're right, this piece has many complexities, so it's a tough one to play well. It feels great to have finished Op. 24. Now I'll be turning attention to more of the Catoire pieces, as I feel quite an affinity to this music.

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#1294479 - 10/26/09 11:21 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: RachFan]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
As usual, it's excellent. Already residing in iTunes to round out the collection. smile This is definitely "your" music; you play it with such passion! I definitely encourage you to record more Catoire. smile The Baldwin sounds great, too. No big surprise there. thumb
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1294537 - 10/27/09 01:36 AM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: Horowitzian]
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1336
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Hi Horowitzian,

Whenever someone puts my recordings into their iTunes, it's definitely a big compliment to me. So thanks for that, and enjoy! Yes, I'll be continuing with the Catoire repertoire, as I have a great affinity to this composer. So stay tuned! Despite the change from summer to fall, the Baldwin is holding tune nicely.



Edited by RachFan (10/27/09 01:37 AM)

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#1294746 - 10/27/09 11:44 AM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: RachFan]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
It's my pleasure! smile

You can bet your life I'm stayin' tuned! wink What's next on the Catoire docket, purely out of curiosity? smile

Funny, my piano has been holding tune pretty well too.
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1294754 - 10/27/09 11:58 AM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: Horowitzian]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
i think Rachfan's going to get his own playlist..

i love your recordings Rachfan.. so glad you contribute them. this is gorgeous as I'm listening.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1294812 - 10/27/09 01:26 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: apple*]
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1336
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Hi Horowitzian,

I'm going to be looking at the Quartre Morceaux, Op. 12 from 1901 to see if it will be doable. I hope it will be.

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#1294819 - 10/27/09 01:36 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: RachFan]
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1336
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Hi apple*

The problem with the Catoire pieces is that they're so addictive. I really love this music! There's nothing quite like it.

I probably won't get my own playlist (I like the thought though), but I'm glad that so many listen to these works here on the main list. But hey, I do have a dedicated playlists on your iPod (and Horowitzian's iTunes too)! That's plenty good enough for me.

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#1294822 - 10/27/09 01:39 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: RachFan]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453


I've tried to keep like things with like...
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1294823 - 10/27/09 01:40 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: RachFan]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: RachFan
Hi Horowitzian,

I'm going to be looking at the Quartre Morceaux, Op. 12 from 1901 to see if it will be doable. I hope it will be.


Well, I'll be waiting! smile
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1294926 - 10/27/09 04:11 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: Horowitzian]
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1336
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Hi Horowitzian,

Holy smoke! I didn't realize the number of pieces I'd posted here until you put up that iTunes list! It amazes even me! Someday I need to get back to Bortkiewicz, but I'm too busy with Catoire now. All of this goes to prove once again the old adage among pianists that the repertoire is too vast and life is too short.

Without a doubt I'll play some of Catoire's Op. 12. The question will be whether I can handle the whole set of four. The "Etude-fantastique" there, for example, could be more than a match for me, but then again....

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#1294940 - 10/27/09 04:38 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: RachFan]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
smile I was listening to it just this morning.

The repertoire is far too vast to conquer. Pick your favorites and run with them, I say! thumb

Does IMSLP have any of Catoire's music, so I might have a "look see"?
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1294963 - 10/27/09 05:01 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: Horowitzian]
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1336
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Hi Horowitzian,

Yes, especially at my age, one has to forsake "the well-rounded pianist" nostrum and specialize in what one does best.

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#1294971 - 10/27/09 05:10 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: RachFan]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Well you are doing a fine job of it! It's good to call attention to unfairly neglected composers. I also enjoy our own Koji Attwood's latest work with transcriptions, which have unfortunately fallen out of favor in the mainstream.
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1295012 - 10/27/09 06:27 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: Horowitzian]
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1336
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Hi Horowitzian,

Interestingly, (I can't recall if I had mentioned it earlier) I first discovered Catoire through Koji Attwood. He's a wonderful artist. Awhile back, Marc-Andre Hamelin did a Catoire CD, but at present I pretty much work alone at advancing this music. Fortunately, it's a "labor of love".

Because in his own time Catoire ran afoul of the Rimsky-Korsakov clique, was later shunned by the Soviet Ministry of Culture, and declined to perform his own works in recital, his repertoire never gained a foothold early on. It was an opportunity lost. Ninety years later it feels like rolling a very heavy stone uphill to raise awareness of these pieces. The good news is that I have listeners like you encouraging me.

On transcriptions, ronde-des-sylphes has played a large number of operatic piano transcriptions which he has posted on the piano websites and YouTube. He too is a very fine pianist. If transcriptions interest you, do check out his videos if you haven't already.


Edited by RachFan (10/27/09 06:32 PM)

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#1295062 - 10/27/09 07:30 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: RachFan]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Hmmm, now that you mention it I think you did tell me, and I forgot! blush

I had no idea he had run afoul of Rimsky-Korsakov. What is the story behind that? Certainly would be a career killer in those days. frown

I've never seen that channel; I must have a look. smile
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1295147 - 10/27/09 10:33 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: Horowitzian]
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1336
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Hi,

I can answer you question and more.

The story of the "transgression" was that Catoire was a very early proponent of Wagner's music, which was virtually unknown in Russia at that time. Catoire's first important teacher was Klindworth who was a friend of Wagner, so that was probably how Catoire first became familiar with Wagner's work. (Wagner's extraordinary vocal textures are often present within the complex polyphonies in Catoire's piano music--and I always marvel at it!) Anyway, Rimsky-Korsakov detested Wagner's music, thus the members of his circle likewise disparaged it. When Catoire joined the Wagner Society in Moscow, the bitterness only increased, and Catoire found himself shunned and blackballed. You can imagine the effect on Catoire's composing career! He did teach composition at Moscow Conservatoire though.

How did Rimsky-Korsakov learn about Catoire's admiration of Wagner? I have a theory: Catoire and Tchaikovsky were acquaintances, and the latter was impressed by the former's early efforts at composition. Tchaikovsky then recommended that Catoire study composition with Rimsky-Korsakov, who, of course, was one of the greatest composers and orchestrators. When Catoire first presented himself to Rimsky-Korsakov following Tchaikovsky's introduction, I would have to believe that there was some casual talk about music, composers, schools, trends, etc. It could well be that Catoire spoke highly of Wagner, which, of course would have caused Rimsky-Korsakov to bristle. That's my speculation; however, Rimsky-Korsakov immediately decided that having given that one and only composition lesson to Catoire, he had shown proper courtesy and respect to Tchaikovsky, so turned around and re-referred Catoire to Liadov for further study. Catoire did study for a short awhile with Liadov, but afterward befriended Arensky whom he could call upon for advice about composition.

Subsequently, the Soviet Ministry of Culture could not be bothered with Catoire, viewing him as a Late Romantic anachronism whose style of composing had nothing whatever to do with the ideals of art in the service of socialism. It refused to allow Catoire's scores to be reprinted and recirculated in Russia, except for one thin volume issued in 1928 after Catoire's death, and that volume is now very long out of print. Thus, today we're forced to use only PDF images of the original editions of Catoire's works. Those, of course, are 8 1/2 X 11 inch format, so they're harder to read (even with glasses) than standard score size. So if you should catch me playing an error, that's probably the reason for it--squinting at tiny notation!

After Catoire's death in 1926, Alexander Goldenweiser and David Oistrakh championed Catoire's music until their own deaths. His music then fell into near oblivion and was long neglected. Now a half-century later a small few of us are trying to bring it back.

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#1295185 - 10/28/09 12:11 AM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: RachFan]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Thank you for your post. smile That's a fascinating and sad bit of history right there.

The ironic thing for me is that I've never cared much for Wagner — colossal talent that he was — and yet I find Catoire most congenial. smile I admit that I think it's probably Wagner's (to me) offensive proto Nazi writings that put me off of him, because his music is fabulous.

Interestingly, Scriabin was similarly mostly (though not completely) forgotten before Horowitz began programming and recording his music regularly. Perhaps our efforts can get Catoire into the mainstream where he belongs. thumb
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1295358 - 10/28/09 10:40 AM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: Horowitzian]
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1336
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Yes, it's all a sad and most unfortunate story. Let's hope that as time goes along that more people will rediscover the great beauty of Catoire's musical legacy.

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#1295549 - 10/28/09 04:13 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: RachFan]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
how unfortunate. the things people get upset about. hmmph
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1295577 - 10/28/09 04:40 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: apple*]
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1336
Loc: Maine, U.S.
The two vying cultural centers in Russia during Catoire's time were Moscow and St. Petersburg. Rimsky-Korsakov was on the faculty of the St. Petersburg Conservatory, a member of The Five, and was a strong force for the Russian Nationalistic style of composing, as well as being a major composer and orchestrator. So he was really the "heavy weight" in St. Petersburg music circles in the 19th Century. Thus, he had a very strong voice and influence in defining "musical taste" during those times, so it's easy to see how the young upstart Catoire could have been ostracized so easily for his outspoken support of Wagner.

When Catoire returned to Moscow, it would have beneficial to his piano and chamber music had he performed it in recitals. However, in discussions with Klindworth, his first teacher, he made it known that his first love and preference was composing rather than being a touring artist. And like Sergei Bortkiewicz he almost felt that it was self-serving and gauche for a composer to play his own works in public, so declined.

Yet as we saw with Rachmaninoff, by contrast, he was all too happy to play his compositions in recital, and did so very frequently! It greatly helped Rachmaninoff attain success and to establish his works in the standard repertoire. Catoire, however, wanted none of it. So as a highly respected professor at the Moscow Conservatoire, he composed and taught, leaving it, hopefully, to others to promote his works. The irony is that both Bortkiewicz and Catoire were wonderful pianists. But neither tried to help themselves in that respect.


Edited by RachFan (10/28/09 06:43 PM)

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#1295579 - 10/28/09 04:49 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: RachFan]
Thracozaag Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 1979
Loc: Salt Lake City
Yet another gorgeous Catoire piece--thanks for recording and sharing.
_________________________
"I'm a concert pianist--that's a pretentious way of saying I'm unemployed at the moment."--Oscar Levant

http://www.youtube.com/kojiattwood
https://www.giftedmusicschool.org/

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#1295627 - 10/28/09 06:25 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: Thracozaag]
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1336
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Thanks thracozaag! I'm glad you enjoyed this "Chant No. 1". A big part of learning this Catoire repertoire is sharing it with others, so the pleasure is all mine.


Edited by RachFan (10/28/09 06:31 PM)

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#1295805 - 10/29/09 01:31 AM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: RachFan]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: RachFan
[...]

On transcriptions, ronde-des-sylphes has played a large number of operatic piano transcriptions which he has posted on the piano websites and YouTube. He too is a very fine pianist. If transcriptions interest you, do check out his videos if you haven't already.


I was unable to find anything...perhaps you have a link?
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1296214 - 10/29/09 06:02 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: Horowitzian]
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1336
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Hi Horowitzian,

Try these links for ronde's recitals of operatic piano transcriptions:

Recitals of operatic transcriptions:

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=CC9FA890A54B65EA

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=F9942CBA2095D98A

By way, when I was looking at your iTunes, I forgot to mention that it looks like you missed a couple of Bortkiewicz's Preludes, Op. 33, Nos. 5 and 7. Here are the links for those two if you'd like to have them:

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,31935.0.html

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,28391.0.html

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#1296283 - 10/29/09 07:52 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: RachFan]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Ah, thanks for those links! Couldn't find his stuff anywhere!

I did miss those, thanks so much! smile
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1296398 - 10/30/09 12:45 AM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: Horowitzian]
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1336
Loc: Maine, U.S.
You're welcome!

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#1296403 - 10/30/09 01:09 AM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: RachFan]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Just downloaded both of them!
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1296626 - 10/30/09 12:06 PM Re: G. Catoire, Chants du Crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 1 [Re: Horowitzian]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Both of them sound incredible...great playing as usual. The piano seems slightly out-of-tune in Op. 33 No. 7, which is a shame, because I loved the fire you played it with! Fantastic! smile
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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