Ditto!

Thank you Terry Louis and others for putting your disagreements behind you. This thread was getting ugly, but that's all past now (until it happens again). I haven't played a Steingraeber, but I have played an SK7. I have posted in the past that it was a very nice instrument with a highly refined sound. It was not as exuberant a piano as others I have played, but it drove like a fine sports car. So is a BMW a better car than a Lexus?

A BMW is better than a Lexus. And a Lexus is better than a BMW. There are professional drivers who would say BMW is best and some who would say Lexus is best. There are master mechanics that would say BMW is better because of build quality and German workmanship and some who would say Lexus is better because of build quality and Japanese ingenuity.
Who is right? No one. And everyone. It's all about personal opinion.
Who is wrong? Anyone who thinks their opinion is an indisputable fact.
Look back on this thread and it is easy to see where things began to get hostile. The moment when one person chooses to deem their opinion as THE opinion is when it is no longer a conversation where ideas are shared. Instead it becomes about being 'right' which is all about the ego. Egos talking to egos is a waste of time. I'm just as responsible as the next guy here on this thread.
Bottom line: some people think a Steingraeber is the best piano in the world. Some think it's a Shigeru. Some think it's a young chang. Point is, if you feel a burning need to convince *others* that what YOU think is best should be what THEY think is best than your problems run a lot deeper than whether or not you have the best piano in the world.

"Originally Posted By: koiloco
Ken,
I am calling for a closure of this thread. Who's with me?
(smile)"

Now you see, Koiloco, I can't make out that smile icon on the hi-res screen coz it's too small. Glad you put a smile on, it was about time for one.

Looks like everyone's kissed and made up. I would not like to have to fight the World Wars or the Indian Wars again--- or any wars. I would rather be friends with the Germans and Japanese, and friends with the Native Americans, and friends with the young music lovers.

If the thread has really caught itself and reversed the death spiral, that is unusual.

I don't know what the moderators will do.

What I would like to do is to find a concert program recorded on the nine-foot Kawai concert monster, or an event nearby where I could hear it played live.

I don´t, that is my honest opinion.

And we are not the only ones that have this opinion.

And still others believe in the preeminence of the Williams Encore.

Okay, okay, now I'm shrieking and it hasn't been anywhere near 5 years. Someone - quick - throw a massive wad of cash at me to make it stop!!!!!

lol!

Ok, we've definitively come to the conclusion that Shigeru's absolutely are and absolutely aren't on the same level as a Steingraeber.

How do they fare against the C. Bechstein?

They fare the same against the Bechstein as they do against the Steingraeber, of course. Also, against the Petrof, or Hailun, or Bohemia or Estonia, depending on who is promoting or defending what.

I've played a number of different tier one and tier two pianos, and judging on responsiveness and tone quality in some cases I've definitely preferred some less expensive instruments to some of the 'exalted status' ones.
I sometimes wonder if it is because I cannot realistically afford to spend 100K on a piano that my brain refuses to hear and feel an obvious quality difference. I hear differences of course, but superiority? I'm not so certain.
In any case, I keep auditioning these pianos out of curiosity, so perhaps one day I'll hear that superiority, and then will be doomed to fork out the money to get one, or forever bemoan the fact that I can't afford it.

This is a perfectly fair statement and observation.

Having a certain 7' grand in mind [not Hailun..] we keep it in a seperate room away from our own high enders.

On purpose...

Norbert

Norbert,

Is the 7' grand you have in mind a Brodmann 212?

I just have to post something. This thread is nuts. I'm trying to figure out why I learn more about abnormal psychology than I do about pianos from reading this forum. Someone should write a book on the secret life of threads, and use this one as research.

On that note (pun intended), the original question was, "will it shriek in 5 years?". I believe the answer is no. I have a 7 year old bottom of the line Kawai, and it doesn't shriek. My piano teacher has a 15 year old 5'10" predecessor to the RX-2 that gets played 8 hours per day, and it's starting to shriek, but won't once he gets the hammers pricked.

I think you'll be fine.

"...I learn more about abnormal psychology than I do about pianos from reading this forum. Someone should write a book on the secret life of threads..."

Well, we did have a good one called "I Trill by Night." Don't know if it will help your research, though.

Thank you for your wide variety of some helpful and colorful responses.

"Shrieking," to clarify my Johanna vocabulary means several things. First of all, I'm well aware of the maintenance and care a piano requires and am committed to providing that for my instrument. However, I find with some pianos (many being Asian pianos) that a few years down the line they lose an aspect of the richness and vibrancy that was present when the piano was new. Not being a technician myself, I have to take technicians' word for it when they say that this is not a redeemable loss, it cannot be regained through voicing or even hammer replacement, because it has to do with the nature of the soundboard production. In other words, the soundboards age badly. Feel free to argue that one out amongst yourselves. Also, it is my experience with Asian pianos that brightness becomes a chronic issue as they age, because of the hammers. I'm willing to voice my piano, but not every 6 months, if you see what I mean. That is what I would consider a "wad of cash."

I have had a non-affiliated technician tell me that Shigerus do not age well. That they cease to hold a tuning, that they lose richness of sound, and basically the craftsmanship is significantly less than a 1969 Baldwin L, for example, another other piano that's at the top of my list. This means that I am feeling quite torn, because the Shigeru I have my eye on sounds and plays so gorgeously now, and is my favorite. Unfortunately I don't have the budget for a Hamburg Steinway or a Fazioli (wish I did!), so I'm struggling with peace of mind since Shigeru is an unknown quantity. George Kolasis's comments are reassuring though. I should also correct my typo (doh!) and say that the SK in question is an SK2, not an SK3.

Johanna, if you want more reassurance you might try posting this same question in the technician's forum. And include the specific negative comments that the tech made of SK. I think that you would get overwhelmingly positive responses from the technicians in that forum if you asked them for their opinions on SK.

Dan

Thanks, Dan. I'll do that. As for this thread--Keep it clean in here, people! No more references to holocausts of any shape or size, or a 'stein' of any variety, please. Jiminy Christmas. I go out of town for a couple days and come and come back to this!! Welcome to Piano World, no kidding. lol

Johanna,

Shigerus are pretty few and far between. If your technician is not affiliated with a Shigeru dealer he may have come into contact with one or two instruments. This is hardly a large enough sample to base these types of conclusions. Most in the industry and in the technical realm agree that the SKs are very finely crafted instruments.

All pianos brighten with age and play.

Johanna,
I would not let the prejudiced comments of one technician deter you.
The overwhelming weight of informed opinion is highly positive towards Shigeru Kawai.

Kind regards,
Robert.

"...I have had a non-affiliated technician tell me that Shigerus do not age well. That they cease to hold a tuning, that they lose richness of sound, and basically the craftsmanship is significantly less..."

Your more ordinary run-of-the-factory Kawai's have a design life of, probably, around 40 years. We know of some that have been in service upwards of thirty, and with good care and a decent environment you might beat the average. They are very sturdy.

The SK line is more carefully-made, with premium materials and above-average aftermarket care. The problems you're describing, of bad pins or pinblock, soundboard that goes wonky soon after purchase, inferior fit-and-finish, and maybe dead strings, are ones I would associate with very cheap instruments (and even they may do better than that)... or life in a steamroom.

If the worst you describe were true, these things would be a warranty matter (not the steamroom, of course).

You know--- I don't doubt--- that any new piano takes some time to stabilize in a new environment... but that doesn't sound like what you're describing.

My piano tech maintains the regulation and hammer felts as part of the regular service, when he comes to tune. He charges a decent rate, but not what I'd call "a big wad of cash." The instrument is thriving; it hasn't needed a big working-over.

I have a hard time believing the story, based on what would have to go wrong to make it true. Any piano can have a problem, even the best... but this is just too much.

However, I have played on some older Baldwins--- one just last week--- that still kicked butt. Big, wonderful voice, action pretty much ok, finish not the greatest. Given the choice, it would be the SK-7 for me, hands-down.

johanna, please bear in mind that I sell Shigeru Kawai's and bear that in mind as I state my opinion. Your independant technician's opinion tells me one of three things is going on here.

Either:

#1) (The most probable explanation) Your technician has never had any experience with Shigeru Kawai, and likely never even seen one. There's probably been less than 1000 sold in all of the United States, and there are many more times that amount of piano technicians. The chances of him ever having had the opportunity to work on is fairly small. We're hosting a technicians seminar this week with over fifty piano technicians that have never even seen a Shigeru. Chances are he hasn't and is basing his opinion off of older Kawai models.

#2) (The most unlikely) He has run into a Shigeru, and it did have issues. If that's the case, the piano should likely be under warranty, as the warranty period for even the first Shigeru's haven't expired (to my knowledge). If that's the case, there are several Kawai representatives that post on here, or I would also be happy to do whatever I can to help rectify the situation.

#3) It's also possible that your independant technician isn't as independant as you may think. Many piano dealers do offer commissions to outside technicians that help them sell a piano to a client. Or it could be that he's had a personal issue with the Shigeru dealer, or it could be any one of a hundred things. While there are some very good and truly independant technicians out there, and he may very well be one of these, it's best to still be careful.

Overall, if you love the sound and touch of the piano, there's no reason to be overly concerned about the longevity.

One other thing, if the 1969 Baldwin L is in the same general price range as the SK2, that indicates that either it's a truly exceptional deal on the SK2, or a not so great price offered on the L, IMO.