I've been lurking these forums as a guest for a while, but finally decided to register.

I'm going to be buying a new piano by the end of the week since my old Baldwin spinet is falling apart. Right now I have it narrowed down to a Yamaha GB1 4'11" baby grand for $9600, or a Cable Nelson CN116 upright for $3400. I know that grands under 5' are frowned upon here, but when I played the GB1 in the store I was really impressed with the touch and sound of it. Plus the payments are within my budget, and I can't afford a full-sized grand at the moment, but I do plan to upgrade in a few years. I'm figuring that the GB1 would hold its value better and give me a bit more to trade in later on down the line. But the CN116 is a lot cheaper, takes up less space, and might be a bit more practical at the moment. However, I don't know how its value would hold up if I wanted to trade it in a few years to get a grand. Plus I'm pretty sure (need to ask the dealer) they offer a 5-year full value trade up on Yamahas, so the GB1 would give me a bit more to trade up if I were to go to, say, a GC1 in 5 years.

I'm really partial to Yamaha, so those are my two main choices. I've looked at Cristofori and Essex as well, but wasn't too impressed, and we don't have a local Kawai dealer (though I've liked the Kawais I've played in the past). I fell in love with the GB1 when I played it, but I'm just wondering if it's worth spending that much on a short grand or if I should just go with the much cheaper upright.

I'm a professional musician working as a music director at a church, and I plan to start giving some private piano lessons from home once I get my new piano. My inner practical cheapskate says to just get the upright for now, but my inner musician says to go for the baby grand. I need to make a decision by the end of the week before the local Yamaha dealer's sale is over and prices go back up for the holiday season. I've got one more store to visit this afternoon, but if they don't have anything interesting I might just stop by the Yamaha dealer and sign the paperwork for whatever piano I'm getting tonight. Hopefully you guys can help steer me in the right direction, because I've been wracking my brain for the past couple days and haven't made any progress.

If most of your playing is on the old spinet, then it's not surprising that even a small grand would sound very good. I would try out some of the slightly larger grands and see how much different they sound to you.

Another option could be to get an upright better than the Cable but not as expensive as the Yamaha grand. Or even look for a lightly used Yamaha grand that's larger but costs the same as the Yamaha grand you mentioned.

If you tell us about when you think you might upgrade, other members may be able to better estimate what you could sell each of your two present choices for at that time.

Try and get the dealer to agree to hold the present prices on the Yamaha grands for a longer period of time.

I'm used to playing on 6' Steinways (just graduated college in May), and I'm really picky about pianos, so it's actually really hard to suit me when it comes to pianos. I almost didn't try the GB1 since it was so small, but when I did I really liked it. I should have mentioned that earlier.

I've been looking for used grands - I'd rather buy from a dealer than from a private seller, for one thing. One dealer had a 5' Kawai for $7k, but it sounded and felt awful to play, which is unusual because I really like Kawai pianos. As far as uprights, I looked at the T-118 but the dealer doesn't have them in stock, and I have a P22 at church which is a nice piano, but both of them are over $5k. I'd really like a grand, but I may have to settle for an upright.

I'd like to get a full-sized grand within the next 5-10 years (probably would be closer to 10).

And he already told me that he wouldn't be able to guarantee the current prices any longer than the end of the week.

For the Kawai 5' that you tried, was it a GM-10 or GM-12? GM-10 is made in Indonesia while the GM-12 is made in Japan.

I tried both and I like the GM-12 a lot better. I was quoted 9.8K for the GM-12.

I honestly can't remember, WingWing. It was a used model though, so I doubt it was one that's still in production.

That line about won't guarantee the current prices any longer than the end of the week is an old sales trick to get you to hurry up. Try some a better uprights.

I can almost guarantee you that the same price, or even perhaps lower, will be available to you next week and probably even January. Who puts their prices up for Christmas? Especially on used instruments? Unless you absolutely need to get an instrument asap, then slow down, play the pianos and others again, and see what you think after a few more auditions. A hasty decision now may make the next ten years unbearable.

Thanks for the advice, guys. I do need a piano fairly quickly - and newguyonforum, it's actually a brand new piano that I'm considering getting, not used. My current piano is in horrendous shape and I really need a decent instrument to practice on for Christmas events. I'm also planning to start giving some private lessons out of my home.

Anyway, as of today, I've been to pretty much every piano dealership in the area and I still prefer the GB1 over every upright and grand in my price range that I've played. I've tried the more expensive Yamaha uprights, and while they're really nice and they'd be what I'd go for in an upright, I still like the feel and sound of the GB1 a bit more. Plus the dealer confirmed that there's a five-year full value trade-up, so if I want to upgrade to something bigger later on, it'll make it a little bit more bearable. Plus the Yamaha should hold its value fairly well even after five years.

I know you guys don't like short grands, but I think I'll personally be happy with the GB1, at least until I can afford/have room for a larger grand. I stopped by the store and played a few of the pianos again today, including the GB1 and the bigger Yamaha uprights, and I paid special attention to the bass and treble since they seem to be the main trouble spots with shorter grands. The GB1 (or at least this particular one) seems to have a much stronger bass and a less tinny treble than the other short grands I played, and it's even almost comparable to a full-size grand. I plan to start teaching lessons from home when I get my piano as a bit of extra income on top of my church job, so maybe if I get a large enough student following I can upgrade it within the next five years or so.

Hi Rondo,

Since you like the way the GB1 sounds, and the action is definitely excellent, there is no reason to stress your finance anymore than it needs to just to have a bigger piano. There are those student loans to think about. So I would say, enjoy your GB1. No matter which piano you buy, there is always something better. The GB1 is a good one to start off with.

The GB1 is designed for home use, 1 to 2 hours of play per day. If you start using it a lot, it will wear out sooner. Not a problem. Make sure you buy the GB1 from a dealer that provides 100% trade in value when you upgrade to something better within 10 years. That way, you can buy a new C2 / C3 in 9.5 years and will get every penny you paid for the GB1 toward your upgrade.

I had a similar experience in a different brand (Hailun). The 5ft seemed quite powerful in base, and clear in treble. The one 5 inches longer seemed better to me, but not hugely so. It wasn't until I went to the 5ft. 10 that I saw a big difference. That said, I nearly bought the 5 ft. and still believe that I would have been happy with it.

Hop

Rondo,

It seems like you like the GB1 a lot.....go for it!

One thing I want to add.....make sure you know the details of the "100% trade-up" offer. Usually, you have to spend A LOT more money on the new piano to be eligible for the 100% buy back deal and sometimes there is a restriction on the brand of piano you can trade-up to (e.g. Steinway). Other than that, the 100% buy back is a good deal if you are accepting of the fine print ahead of time.

When I started my search for a new piano, the first dealer I went to (primarily Steinway and Yamaha) informed me of the 100% buy back offer without really giving me the details (or if he did, i misunderstood). But, I then said to him, "Oh, that's great, so if I buy this Yamaha today and decide I don't like it in 6 months, I can bring it back and get a slightly larger Yamaha or perhaps a small Boston instead." After I said that, he did not inform me that I was misunderstanding the policy. It was only later that I realized the deal only applies to those trading up for a much more expensive Steinway.

Bottom line, make sure you know the details of your dealers 100% buy back policy if it is a major factor in your purchase.

You found a piano you love at a price you can afford. You've shopped around a while, you're an experienced musician who knows what you're looking for in sound and feel. I'd say go ahead and buy it, and enjoy your new piano!

fwiw, in your case, I would definitely recommend the GB1 over the cheaper upright. You know how much difference playing on a grand makes, and if you got the CN116, you'd be sitting there each and every time gnashing your teeth and wishing you had the GB1.

I personally would recommend a longer used grand, if you can find one, than the GB1, but I understand your reluctance to buy privately. It sounds like you've done a diligent search and like the GB1 the best of your feasible options. Go for it.

Rondo, buy the piano, not the deal.

Those tradeup offers are, IMO, essentially a sales device. What happens if you want to trade up to a piano which the current dealer doesn't stock?

Sounds like you shopped a lot and found something you like and that you can afford. Consider yourself lucky and buy it. Yamaha is a known quantity.

It wouldn't hurt to really understand the 100% trade-up policy. Another way these don't work is the dealer won't negotiate the price of the new bigger piano down as far. It ends up like the same game you play trading in a car. But that particular piano will hold some value no matter how you try to sell it.

Again, if you like it and you can afford it then you don't really have to ask us! Yamaha is well-known and respected.

Just thought I'd give you all an update. I opted out of the grand for the time being. I looked at all my options, checked out my finances, and just didn't want to go into debt for $10,000 at this point. But after a good play session with the CN116, I realized that it just wasn't comfortable at all for me to play and I found it hard to play softly and expressively on it.

So I tried some other pianos and eventually decided to get a Yamaha P22 in satin ebony, the exact same model/color that I have at church. It had the best feel and tone of the uprights I tried, and then in a couple of years I'll hopefully be in a situation where I feel comfortable putting out the money for a grand. Maybe even one that's bigger/better than the GB1.

So thanks for all your help, everyone! Financing was approved by my bank yesterday, going to sign the papers tomorrow and then take the check over to the dealer. Delivery on Friday or Saturday.

My friend just bought an excellent used Yamaha 5f3 GP1 at $5250, built in 1999 from a private party on Craiglist, the list price is 6500.

I never advise friend to buy used piano but when I saw the excellent piano at this price, I changed my mind. Consider used grand Yamaha on Craiglist

Rondo, it sounds like you made a wise choice. The P22 is a nice piano, so don't forget the pictures of the big day!