Actually curling irons date back to ancient Greece and growing up in a household of girls I'm sure he would've had a fair idea how to use one when forced as he said to "be my own valet."

Oh no, Frycek!! The image of Chopin fixing his hair using a curling iron is way more than I want to envision.

But thanks for the info...I think.

Kathleen

Yes, the second one seems like a better pick for him :p

He might have used something like this, heated over a candle. Men also used them of varying sizes to curl mustaches and beards.

Heating over a candle?? It must have taken forever to get it hot enough. But I do remember (in the prehistoric ages) that my mom used one that she had to put over the flames on the stove. And now I have one that heats up (thanks to electricity) in 30 seconds.

Ah, the good old days.

Once again, Frycek, I marvel at the vast and never-ending information (with pictures yet) you have at hand.

Regards to all,
Kathleen

I have been wondering, did Chopin speak any English? Or, did he communicate with Jane Sterling strictly in French?

Chopin spoke a very very little English. He had studied it briefly as a teenager along with his friend Tytus with an Irishman living in Warsaw. He probably remembered just a bit from back then but he had a good ear for languages (he spoke some German and Italian as well). He remarked in one of his letters from Scotland that he had picked up just enough English not to be in danger of starving or too much taken advantage of. Of course Jane Stirling spoke fluent French. Learning to speak French was an obligatory part of the education of well brought up young lady of her time. And being an apparent Francophile she would have polished it to fluency having spend quite a bit of her adult life in Paris.

(Ironically George Sand is reputed to have spoken fluent English.)

It's my first time seeing this thread..
and I have to say,

WOW! FANTASTIC...

I cant imagine how you all went through this talks about Chopin for over a year, and not yet finished.

I am so surprised to see how you all love Chopin too much. Maybe I will visit time to time and try to catch up with your dicussions. It's nice to meet you here.

Hi Apple Cheek: Love your name!

That our Chopin thread has been going on so long and is just filled with wonderful information (and sometimes, just fun stuff) is the result of many lovers of Chopin's music and of the man, himself.

We will soon reach the 3,000th post, which is probably some kind of record, I guess. And though we have touched on so much of his life and music, we haven't even come close to running out of material about our "hero."

Please feel free to read and write when you get a chance. Ask a question...whatever...we would be happy to hear from you.

Best regards,
Kathleen

Good Morning All:

I am currently learning a couple of Chopin's mazurkas, which happen to be my favorite genre...along with MaryRose'.

It is purported that the Mazurka, #49 in F minor (Op. 68, No 4) was his very last work, this according to friend, Fontana. Although Jeffrey Kalberg doubts this. I have no idea, of course, who is right. But after listening to it several times, one can hear Chopin's sorrow and yet there are so many measures that radiate joy and hope. Fontana said that Chopin was too weak to even play this mazurka, but even so "he was still, in these strange chromatic musings, stretching out towards the future." (Bailie)

Because Chopin was only able to leave a sketch of this work, the celllist Franchomme, assembled the piece. Fontana edited the work, along with the rest of Op. 68 compositions.

This bothers me because I would love to think that Chopin composed and edited and finished all of his works. That someone else (Fontana or Franchomme) had a hand in it, leaves me wondering just how much of Chopin's music is actually his. I would love to believe that the two men kept the character and beauty of Chopin's music as pure as possible.

Any thoughts on this matter?

Kathleen

Hi Kathleen - I know what you mean. When playing that last Mazurka you wonder which of it is Chopin's and which was 'guessed at' by Fontana. I suspect it was a mere sketch, and the score usually given isn't 100% Chopin - but I do admit to liking it rather a lot, although it always makes me feel sad as it reminds one of the tragic circumstances in which it was written.

It never ceases to amaze me how each of Chopin's many mazurkas is so individual, each a fresh interpretation of the genre. I never get tired of them.

Hi Mary Rose:

Just a year ago, today, I remember reading your post to the topic (Thanksgiving...What are you the most grateful for?"). Do you remember what you wrote? I thought...wow!! Here's a lady who isn't afraid to speak her own mind. It's stuck with me all this time.

Again, from Bailie's book, she writes of Chopin's Nocturne in C# minor, posth. (the one that is played in "The Pianist").

She writes: "The melody is one of the most truly vocal that Chopin wrote--indeed it cries out for a Callas or a Sutherland!"

However, she then describes Nocturne 21 in C minor..."This is a sadly flaccid affair...Jan Ekier considers it more likely to have been written in 1847; and it certainly has the weary ring of Chopin's last pieces, when he was too weak to rally his inventive spirit."

Boy, do I ever disagree with her on this. I love this nocturne, and it is NOT flaccid! While it is true that it could have been written while Chopin was close to death, I believe it expresses his melancholy for his homeland and his happy times there. The “monotony of the LH” (as she describes it) shows her lack of understanding Chopin’s nature (of course, my humble opinion here). That left hand represents the steadiness and security he remembered and so yearned for throughout his days. It is a sad piece, yes. But it is one that is true Chopin as we know him to be.

Kathleen

Didn't Chopin specify that nothing was to be published (that had not already been published) after his death...? I think I remember reading that in the Headley book...?

He did. He wanted all his unpublished pieces destroyed but fortunately for us no one present could bear to do it. His sister Ludwicka who was present at his death asked her brother's lifelong friend and some time copyist Julian Fontana to take charge of the works for publication. He did and without accepting any recompense as a labor of love. The Fantasie Impromptu (the name Fontana's gave it) was one of the pieces that would've been destroyed.
I once had a dream of being at Chopins' bedside. He asked me to promise to destroy his manuscripts. I told him I couldn't give him that promise. We both ended up crying. Perhaps Ludwicka wasn't able to give him that promise either.

Have any biographers hazarded ideas about why he made the request? Did he perhaps usually correct the draft editions and felt he needed to be 'in the loop'... Or perhaps felt they were simply not worthy...?

Chopin said it himself on his death bed, that he didn't want anyone to "take advantage of the public in my name" by publishing anything he wasn't totally satisfied with. There's an brief intriguing mention in a friend's memoire of a few pieces that the bedridden Chopin had sketched on paper but was too weak to try on the piano. I think these must have been destroyed. What Fontana published were some stray pieces that Chopin evidently hadn't finished developing or tweaking or had finished but decided weren't worthy of publication. Chopin was an extreme perfectionist about his compositions and an obsessive editor and reviser so his standard of worthiness was quite high.

Hi Frycek:

Thank you for clarifying something that has always bothered me. I've "blamed" Fontana for not abiding with Chopin's wishes about his unfinished works. And now (thanks to you) I've learned it was his sister who insisted that Fontana get them ready for publication.

Now I am debating whether I am angry with her about this. She was a wonderful sister to Chopin, and he loved her dearly. So now I am left with the thought that perhaps he would have been angry with her. I realize that she knew her brother was a genius and thought that the world would welcome these compositions. However, if they were not "completely" composed by Chopin, how could she reconcile this to herself? I know she didn't do it for the money (or did she?). I tend to doubt it.

BTW...to whom did the money go? To his family? Or where these unfinished compositions already sold to a publisher and Ludwicka was simply honoring her brother's commitment and his good name?

While it is true that we might have never known of the Fantasie Impromptu and some other works, I believe that Chopin left behind a huge volume of work (preludes, etudes, ballades, scherzos, some mazurkas, etc.,) that still would have put him on the map, so to speak.

So what was her motive and why didn't she honor her brother's deathbed request?

I've tried to put myself in her position, and I know that because this was his dying wish, I would have honored it. I've done pretty much the same thing with my mother. While it was difficult, I made a promise to her, and I was compelled to keep my word.

Kathleen

As for who got the money, all the proceeds from the sale of his posessions (clothes, furniture, jewelry, etc) went to his mother after his last bills were settled. I presume what money there was from the sale of the posthumous works would've gone to Justyna as well. As for Ludwicka not honoring his last wishes, how do we know she didn't? She had more influence over him than anyone. He was her little brother after all. Perhaps during one of those last nights as she sat beside him she begged him to reconsider - to trust her and Julyan (Fontana) be the judge of what should be saved and what not. She and Julyan were both competent musicians, both loved him and both had his best interests at heart. Perhaps he allowed himself to be persuaded. Perhaps he was even glad to be persuaded. He once said something about being overly fond of "his children" even the most wayward of them. We will never know but I can't persuade myself to fault Ludwicka with anything. As for Ludwicka having any financial motives - Ludwicka braved the anger of her husband by allowing only the annonymous auction of her brother's posessions and only the most token low key announcement of the auction - this perhaps only to satisfy his creditors. Capitalizing on his celebrity would've brought far higher prices but she wanted his effects to go to his friends not the general public. She even broke the law by "stealing" her brother's beloved watch from his safe before the sale(no doubt at his suggestion) to keep it in the family.

Hey Chopin-Addicts! Just had a question for you,

Who was Mikuli? Chopin's assistent or someone? He's edited most of my Chopin scores (complete preludes,etudes,nocturns,ballades,sonatas,pollonaises) . Recently someone told me that his fingerings could be a little off. Anyone?

Mikuli was one of Chopin's students. I don't know if he ever functioned as an assistent or not. Adolph Guttman (that "giant German") was one of Chopin's first students who graduated over the years into the role of friend and sometime assistent. His family were importers and he sometimes paid for his lessons in drinking chocolate. He sometimes played Chopin's works for publishers when Chopin felt too ill. Julian Fontana (Polish in spite of the name)was a boyhood friend of Chopin who also ended up exiled in Paris and was his copyist (and gopher). Fontana was a pianist and teacher in his own right and spent some time in Cuba and the US where he was living when Chopin died. He was responsible for preparing Chopin's posthumous works for publication.

OK here's what Wiki has to say about Mikuli:

Thanks for the info! Both a student and teaching assistant? It would have been amazing to have been Mikuli!

Yes and Mikuli is Cortot's teacher. And I love Cortot's interpretation.

Now imagine how Chopin himself sounded like.

I need to get Cortot's edition of the etudes! I hear they come with exercises of how to practice them?

I have PDF copies of them. I'm not using them as my Etude learning edition, but some of the exercises provide useful insights. You have to be careful, playing the exercises might take just as long as the Etude!

hi all, i am in my mid 20s and juz started re-learning the piano after giving up since my childhood days. Just have my 2nd lesson last weekend. The reason why I got hooked again on the piano is because of Chopin's Nocturne No. 20 in C# Minor, which I really enjoyed listening again and again.

I really hope to play the piece, and I would say that piece is my main motivation for picking up piano again after so many years. Anyone has any idea how long it would take for an adult beginner to reach the stage where I can play the piece (like the piece is considered what level under ABRSM grade)?

Thanking all in advance.

Welcome iluvuchopin. That 'lento con gran espressione' is a very popular piece, although Chopin himself didn't give it the title of Nocturne. It is about a grade 7. How long it will take you to reach that level depends on so many things: what level did you reach before you gave up? How long do you practice each day? etc etc. Perhaps your teacher can advise you on this, and help you to work towards it. It's always a good thing to have a piece to aim for as motivation - a bit like a carrot on a stick! So good luck.

Remember when "our" Hershey told us about his being nominated for several Ovation Awards...well, he won two!!



And his play "Gershwin" won several others.

Nothing for Chopin... but, Chopin doesn't need any awards, for they can't possibly make one worthy of him.

See Below:

But to Hershey, wherever he may be:

AND

Hershey\'s Awards!

Kathleen

Welcome iluvuchopin: It would seem by our names that we have a lot in common (with about a zillion other people also).

I am presently learning this hauntinngly beautiful piece although not making the progress I had hoped for. While it is a 7 with the runs seeming to be the most difficult at first glance...I am finding that just keep a steady motion going in the LH and, of course, keeping the trills even isn't that easy.

The mazurka part is quite charming and fun to play. I am now approaching that "quirky" part and have to keep listening to a recording to get the tempo ingrained onto my brain.

We started at study group for this piece several weeeks ago, but I think a lot of the people may have dropped out.

Anyhow, if you are interested in what we discussed here is the link.

Once again, we are happy to have you with us and hope you will read and post whenever you can.


Kathleen

hello to all, thks so much for all your responses.

A little background about myself, I have played piano in my elementary school days for a couple of yrs but never went for any exams for my piano due to the stressful workload of my school work. However, i do continue with my playing of the violin and clarinet but decided to stop piano then.

After so many many yrs, Chopin's pieces brought back my interest on piano and now I am practising daily on the piano, but I am doing mainly scales to brush up on my technique. Hopefully 1 day i can play the pieces by Chopin

Hi again iluvuchopin:

You are very wise to practice your technique (I have none!) and also play the scales (I don't). The reason I believe these are excellent things to do is because I realize that I probably could be much further along if I had done what you are doing. But now, considering my age, all I want to do is "make music."

So...good luck to you, and I have no doubt that you will soon be playing Chopin!

Kathleen