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#1292511 - 10/23/09 02:58 PM Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500?
vicster Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6
Used WKV131 (from 2006) for $5K, private seller so I would need to pay for own tuning and delivery. Plays well and looks great but some cosmetic blemishes.

New Charles Walter 1500 offered for $7995 (haven't tried to negotiate yet... any idea what a good/reasonable price would be?) from dealer so full warranty, delivery included, tuning at store and second tuning at home included.

Both satin black.

In Northern California if that makes a difference on price.

Thanks.

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#1292519 - 10/23/09 03:18 PM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: vicster]
jnod Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/09
Posts: 794
Loc: Toronto
the wkv is a great piano but given that it's used I would say it should be cheaper.
_________________________
Justin
-------
Bach English Suite #5
Scarlatti Sonata K141 . L422
Mozart Sonata K333
Schubert Impromptu opus 90 D899
Schubert Moment Musicaux opus 94 D780

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#1292574 - 10/23/09 05:08 PM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: vicster]
Classical Dad Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 19
Loc: Michigan
Not certain how much the extra shipping to the left coast adds to the equation but within a few hours of the CW factory an authorized CW dealer welcomed me to order from him a new satin black 1500 for around $6,000, before negotiation. I got the distinct feeling, however, that he was shooting pretty straight with me and there wasn't going to be much negotiation.

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#1292580 - 10/23/09 05:17 PM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: jnod]
ChasT Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 649
Loc: Georgia
Vicster,

I really like both pianos. The price on the Knabe isn't too far off; the satin finish costs more than the polished ebony. You won't be paying sales tax on the Knabe. I don't know if the warranty is transferable. So, how bad are the blemishes?

Charles

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#1292597 - 10/23/09 05:59 PM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: ChasT]
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
Originally Posted By: ChasT
I don't know if the warranty is transferable. So, how bad are the blemishes?

Charles
+1

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#1292612 - 10/23/09 06:33 PM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: ChasT]
vicster Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6
The most significant blemishes are on the front edge of the case right under the keyboard. Not sure what happened but looks like a bunch of the finish got rubbed off by something whitish and so there are 4-5 splotches of white right on the front edge, i.e., pretty obvious.

And sales tax in NorCal is 9.25% so not insignificant... smile

Just not sure how low I could get the Walter without being insulting...

Thanks folks!

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#1292688 - 10/23/09 09:27 PM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: Classical Dad]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3636
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Classical Dad
Not certain how much the extra shipping to the left coast adds to the equation but within a few hours of the CW factory an authorized CW dealer welcomed me to order from him a new satin black 1500 for around $6,000, before negotiation. I got the distinct feeling, however, that he was shooting pretty straight with me and there wasn't going to be much negotiation.



Is that price for a non stocked piano with a Walter (non Renner) action?
Is that prepped or sent out the door to you the way they receive it?

Shipping to the West would cost more.
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
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#1292877 - 10/24/09 11:19 AM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: Rod Verhnjak]
Scott McBain Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 125
Loc: San Jose / Fremont / Bay Area
Have I been in a time warp, what is a wkv131.
Is it another knock off?
What is the brand and who really makes it?

Wyman? Weber? Wurlitzer? One of these and who really makes it?
_________________________
A McBain-Carnes Piano Company
San Jose, California
Authorized dealer for:
Seiler-Shigeru-Kawai-Wilh.Steinberg, Charles R. Walter
Pre-owned Too!
www.carnespianostore.com
1-408-248-9200

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#1292889 - 10/24/09 11:38 AM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: Scott McBain]
ChasT Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 649
Loc: Georgia
Wm. Knabe and Co. Nice pianos. Samick's top brand, prior to buying Seiler.

Charles

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#1292891 - 10/24/09 11:46 AM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: ChasT]
Scott McBain Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 125
Loc: San Jose / Fremont / Bay Area
Oh, I refer to that as a 'Knabe'

I sell this SMC product under a different name.

Thank you and sorry.

Now I can understand the question and make comparisons.

Walter and Knabe - Apples and Oranges.
_________________________
A McBain-Carnes Piano Company
San Jose, California
Authorized dealer for:
Seiler-Shigeru-Kawai-Wilh.Steinberg, Charles R. Walter
Pre-owned Too!
www.carnespianostore.com
1-408-248-9200

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#1292893 - 10/24/09 11:48 AM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: Rod Verhnjak]
Classical Dad Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 19
Loc: Michigan
Rod, yes that was non-stocked, non-Renner and not all that far from the factory. I did not ask if that was unprepped FOB dealer or prepped and sitting in my house but he didn't seem to be the sort that would be less than forthcoming about bottom line.

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#1292928 - 10/24/09 01:13 PM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: Scott McBain]
Marty Flinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 2604
I am a big fan of the WKV131 Wm Knabe uprights. Bigger than the CW 1500.
_________________________
Co-Author of The Complete Idiot's Guide To Buying A Piano. A "must read" before you shop.
Work for west coast dealer for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe.

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#1292950 - 10/24/09 01:57 PM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: Scott McBain]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Scott McBain
Have I been in a time warp, what is a wkv131.
Is it another knock off?
What is the brand and who really makes it?

Wyman? Weber? Wurlitzer? One of these and who really makes it?


Pretending ignorance as a cover for belittling a competitor will leave the reader with two possible impressions.

1) the (retailer) poster has an agenda

2) the (retailer) poster is simply ignorant.

Originally Posted By: Scott McBain
Oh, I refer to that as a 'Knabe'

I sell this SMC product under a different name.

Thank you and sorry.

Now I can understand the question and make comparisons.


A genuine apology to be sure. grin
What same SMC product to you sell under a different name?
Your store website lists Charles Walter, but no SMC products. What specific SMC model do you stock that is the same as the WKV131?

Originally Posted By: Scott McBain
Walter and Knabe - Apples and Oranges.


True! The WKV 118 is an interesting comparison to the Walter. The WKV131 is in a different league in terms of expressive capabilities.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1292994 - 10/24/09 04:10 PM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: Marty Flinn]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3636
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Marty Flinn
I am a big fan of the WKV131 Wm Knabe uprights. Bigger than the CW 1500.


Is bigger better or just bigger?
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


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#1292997 - 10/24/09 04:19 PM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: turandot]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3636
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: turandot


True! The WKV 118 is an interesting comparison to the Walter.


That is a different basket of fruits.
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


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#1293117 - 10/24/09 08:31 PM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: Rod Verhnjak]
mahermusic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 331
Loc: U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Rod Verhnjak
Originally Posted By: turandot


True! The WKV 118 is an interesting comparison to the Walter.


That is a different basket of fruits.


I don't even think it's in the produce section.
_________________________
Charles R. Walter 1520 QA Mahogany #531739 w/ High Polish, Renner and Quiet Pedal

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#1293287 - 10/25/09 09:59 AM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: mahermusic]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
I really don't know what apples and oranges, a basket of fruits and/or the produce section have to do with these two pianos, or in fact with pianos at all. What I do get from all this is a common effort among a few posters to prop up the Walter at the expense of the wkv131. That's unfortunate because neither of these pianos needs to be defended that way.

Vicster, Both of these pianos are pretty distinct tonally. If there is such a thing as a mainstream piano tone, neither one of these has it. You have to decide on the tone. It's subjective. IMO a player can manipulate the tone more on the wkv to achieve more interesting tonal possibilities, but that is only my opinion.

I agree with jnod that the price on the wkv is a bit steep for private party sale, no warranty, and with nasty cabinet blemishes. Were you to buy that piano, I think the blemishes would continue to annoy you until they were corrected.

In your position, I would tell the seller that I wanted a technical inspection at my own expense to make sure the internals are all in like-new condition, and that assuming the tech inspection went well, I wanted the selling price discounted by whatever amount is needed to repair the blemishes. To nail that cost down,I would get a couple of professional estimates. If the seller balked, I'd move on.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1293329 - 10/25/09 11:40 AM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: turandot]
Rich Galassini Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 8975
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
My thoughts,

Both pianos (the 131 and the 1500) do quite well. Both pianos benefit greatly from technical attention and we have no idea what, if any, prep was done to the pianos you are considering.

Since the Knabe is not new and the cabinet is damaged, I would consider offering a lower price. Having said that the Knabe 131 has actually been chosen by some famous players over much more expensive pianos. Again, this is after extensive prep work.

Last year Andre Watts helped a friend choose and upright piano at Cunningham. He was considering several very expensive instruments, but he chose a Knabe 131 and said it was the best choice. He then signed the piano for the customer:



Charles Walter was not even on the table for this customer as they would only consider TALL uprights.

In the end, choose what you love. Either piano will perform well.
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Get Cunningham Piano Email Updates

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#1296405 - 10/30/09 01:16 AM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: Scott McBain]
swampwiz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 561
Loc: Louisiana, USA
The Charles Walters is a more refined brand than the Knabe, and is also built in such a way as to be the equivalent of most other brands' sizes that are a few to several inches larger. For example, the CW console size is 43.5" high, but has a max string speaking length of 48", which is equivalent to many other brands' 52" models.

I am a former owner of that 43.5" model, and I can attest that it is a very fine little instrument. But with that said, I have heard some good things about Knabe.

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#1296410 - 10/30/09 01:34 AM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: swampwiz]
vicster Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6
I'm actually now trying to decide between a Bohemia 123A with full Renner action or the Walter 1500 with the Renner action. I realize that both have very different sounds... I describe the Walter as more refined (i.e., the notes don't seem to run together as they do on the Bohemia) but the Bohemia has a full, rich sound. I like them both... how does once decide??

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#1296512 - 10/30/09 09:05 AM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: vicster]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
it's easy to dismiss the Walter because of it's smaller stature.. i wouldn't. that is a piano to try with one's eyes closed.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, ├Ľun (apple in Estonian)

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#1296697 - 10/30/09 02:28 PM Re: Used WKV131 or New Charles Walter 1500? [Re: apple*]
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
vicster, choosing a piano us ultimately an emotional decision and we often react differently on different days, so multiple auditions are preferred. The best one is the one which attracts you more and more and whose imperfections you can live with.

It'd be a good idea to ask both dealers if their piano is fully prepared for sale.

Patience and persistence.

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