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#1295853 - 10/29/09 06:42 AM Recording audio from digital piano
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
Hi,

Can anyone help, basically I want to record audio from my new CLP-380. I currently use an Edirol RH09 digital mp3 recorder/mic to capture audio onto wav 24 bit 96khz - I use output L/R jacks on my piano to line in connection on Edirol. I normally make videos, so I record image with a standard digital camera and combine both audio and video with sony vegas software.

I dont think however I am getting the best sound out of my piano. Would anyone know a very good set-up different from the one I have currently. I dont think the Eidrol is meant to be used for line in recording, and I was wondering if a decent soundcard or other audio capturing device would be better. I have a desktop PC but its no where near my piano, so I cant connect the two, I would have to buy a laptop I think.

Does anyone think the best way to record and get the best possible original sound from the piano is through a decent soundcard set-up, or I am ok with the Edirol?

Thanks

Mark
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#1295912 - 10/29/09 09:21 AM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: mwf]
AlphaTerminus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 549
Loc: Iowa, USA


Edited by AlphaTerminus (10/29/09 03:08 PM)
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#1296190 - 10/29/09 05:22 PM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: mwf]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7124
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: mwf
Hi,

Can anyone help, basically I want to record audio from my new CLP-380. I currently use an Edirol RH09 digital mp3 recorder/mic to capture audio onto wav 24 bit 96khz - I use output L/R jacks on my piano to line in connection on Edirol. I normally make videos, so I record image with a standard digital camera and combine both audio and video with sony vegas software.

I dont think however I am getting the best sound out of my piano. Would anyone know a very good set-up different from the one I have currently. I dont think the Eidrol is meant to be used for line in recording, and I was wondering if a decent soundcard or other audio capturing device would be better. I have a desktop PC but its no where near my piano, so I cant connect the two, I would have to buy a laptop I think.

Does anyone think the best way to record and get the best possible original sound from the piano is through a decent soundcard set-up, or I am ok with the Edirol?

Thanks

Mark


Mark,

I've used that Edirol and several other miniflash recorders as well. Line-in is a good safe signal path, but as you have noted, it's not the best possible sound. On the Edirol specifically, I don't like the mini-jacks. On Microtracks and some of the others, I think the full-sized input jacks are an advantage. But in any of them (in my experience) the sound is somewhat compressed. If there is a limiter, the compression is more noticeable and a lot of dynamic range is lost. If there is no limiter, there will probably be audio breakup in the bass. The pre-amps in most of these products don't compare well to those in the high-end Sonys either.

I don't know the particular model Yamaha that alpha-terminus is using. I have used a Yamaha GO46 for a couple of years and found its sound output among the best for piano....not too warm and not too cold, but that is a completely different product and price category from the Audiograms. There are dozens and dozens of these external audio interfaces available. Almost any of them will have better pre-amps than those found on mini flash recorders. However, some of them seem better 'tuned' (for lack of a better word) to guitars than to any other instrument.

The problems with the external interface product category are in finding the sound profile you like before purchase and the fact that there are often incompatability issues based on your computer's operating system. XP / Vista is an especially sticky area.
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#1296191 - 10/29/09 05:22 PM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: AlphaTerminus]
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
Ok, thanks alot for that, will the yamaha one produce better sound quality than my Edirol do you know?
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#1296197 - 10/29/09 05:28 PM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: mwf]
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
Ok, thanks Turnadot. So equipment I now need is as follows I am guessing - Laptop and an external soundcard or one of those audiogram things connected to my laptop - do I need an external decent soundcard as well as this? Cheers

If someone could explain in detail the set-up I need would be greatly appreciated, and what I connect and how.
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#1296220 - 10/29/09 06:10 PM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: mwf]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7124
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: mwf
Ok, thanks Turnadot. So equipment I now need is as follows I am guessing - Laptop and an external soundcard or one of those audiogram things connected to my laptop - do I need an external decent soundcard as well as this? Cheers

If someone could explain in detail the set-up I need would be greatly appreciated, and what I connect and how.


Mark,

I have no experience with those "audiogram things" grin so I can't speculate on its performance. I can tell you that, in general, if you are only looking for line-in recording capability at home, a mini flash recorder is not the best use of money. Most of its expense is dedicated to things other than line-in. If you record live music and line-in as well, and record at different locations, it's a very handy piece of hardware.

To clarify one thing, an external soundcard and an external audio interface are the same thing. The audiogram is one of many many such devices on the market. A good internal soundcard for your computer would work out fine as well. Chances are that your computer has an internal soundcard, but that the one supplied is not good enough for music recording.

I'll leave it to someone more knowledgeable than me to lay out the entire sound pathway for you or point you to one of the many tutorials available on the web.
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#1296292 - 10/29/09 08:03 PM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: mwf]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: mwf
Hi,

Can anyone help, basically I want to record audio from my new CLP-380. I currently use an Edirol RH09 digital mp3 recorder/mic to capture audio onto wav 24 bit 96khz - I use output L/R jacks on my piano to line in connection on Edirol.


What's your budget?

One of your problems is the MP3 format. You get the best result recording to a non-compressed format. Most people today would go straight into a computer via a USB or Firewire audio interface. You'd want a good audio interface with high impedance inputs and some knobs to adjust the levels in the preamps before the A/D section. You should not have to sspend more than $200 for a decent USB interface.

You are going to have to set the levels "right" and you do that in the analog/audio domain so you want an interface with LEDs or a UV meter

When you select an interface look for 24-bits and 96K SPS like the device you have. Get some 1/4" to 1/4" cables and keep them short. Lots of companies make good audio interfaces, Prosonus, Edirol, Tascam, E-MU,...

After you record you can try to add a toutch of reverb or EQ. But you play with that after the recording in "post".

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#1296427 - 10/30/09 02:22 AM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: ChrisA]
JahjaMan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 24
Oooooh this post helped me alot too. Thanks for bringing it up mwf.

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#1296446 - 10/30/09 04:53 AM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: ChrisA]
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
I normally record to un-compressed 24 bit wav with the Edirol, so thats not an issue, I eventually record into mp3 through the PC, simply because youtube will compress it down to mp3 anyway once uploaded to their servers.

I just need to know if recording straight into a PC would give a more accurate sound from the piano, than straight into my RH-09 Edirol. The Edirol cost me £250, and if I get a cheaper audio device that goes straight into my PC as outlined in a previous post above, would that sound better or worse because its cheaper, or not so simply because its a straight into the PC.

If I go down this route I will now need to buy a new laptop and sell my desktop, which I dont mind doing, I think its a worth a shot trying something different though.

Thanks for your help on this matter, greatly appreciated, I always get sound advice on this forum smile
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#1296455 - 10/30/09 05:40 AM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: mwf]
kalai1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 39
Loc: Big Island of Hawaii
Hi MWF, I am no expert but I do record my piano music to CD and it sounds real good, I have a Yamaha P-80 piano that I hook up the output to the input of my "soundblaster" sound card in my computer, I then use basic software ( I use the soundblaster software that came with the soundblaster sound card) to record your piano music to the computer and then burn the recorded music to CD. I hope this helps, aloha.

Chris

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#1296485 - 10/30/09 08:10 AM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: kalai1]
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
Hi Kalai1,

Do you have a sample audio of your piano recorded through this card by any chance, would help me out big time. How much was the soundcard? Could I get an external one like it, because I doubt a new laptop would come with a decent soundcard. Thanks
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#1296722 - 10/30/09 03:29 PM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: mwf]
kalai1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 39
Loc: Big Island of Hawaii
Hi MWF, I use a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio sound card and I paid about $40 for it brand new, I also bought a used desk top computer for $120 and I just use the computer for recording my piano music so I don't need a fancy high end computer. The soundblaster cards come in different types to fit in different computers so look into getting the right one if you do get it.
I am trying to find a good way to post some of my music, when I do I will let you know so you can hear what it sounds like. Aloha.

Chris

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#1296820 - 10/30/09 05:56 PM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: kalai1]
kalai1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 39
Loc: Big Island of Hawaii
Hi MWF, I posted a piano compisition I did in the members recordings part of the forum, it should give you a good idea of the sound quality of the soundcard I use, let me know if you have any questions about it, aloha.

Chris

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#1296917 - 10/30/09 10:38 PM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: kalai1]
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
Fantastic, you can compare that recording you made to mine on my youtube site, yours is much more clarity and sounds like the instrument more to me, better dynamic range etc... Is it an external soundcard you use? When I buy a laptop I dont think you can change the soundcard it comes with, so I will have to rely on an external audio interface/soundcard I think.
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#1296969 - 10/31/09 12:12 AM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: mwf]
JahjaMan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 24
He uses an internal sound card, that connects to the desktop through the PCI slots. Unfortunately you can't do the same thing with laptops, because as you say, you cannot change the soundcard and you must rely on an external interface.

You can however, purchase an external Soundblaster card.
http://www.soundblaster.com/products/pro...003&listby=
http://www.soundblaster.com/products/pro...988&listby=

But if you do that, why not just get a proper external interface?

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#1297038 - 10/31/09 05:12 AM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: mwf]
kalai1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 39
Loc: Big Island of Hawaii
Hi mwf, jahjaman is right my sound blaster sound card goes in a pci slot, I looked on ebay (that is where I get things if I can) and you can get a sound blaster sound card for your laptop for - used $40-$60 and new $100 and up, it is very easy to use and I like the quality, the quality is noticed from the first time you listen to music with the new card. I never tried the easy record in the link that jahjaman provided but it looks like it would work real good too,
I listened to your music on utube (nice music) and I can see what your talking about, I think you will like the better quality you get with sound blaster, here is a link to one on ebay- http://cgi.ebay.com/Creative-Sound-Blast...=item2a02309326
aloha.

Chris


Edited by kalai1 (10/31/09 05:13 AM)

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#1297095 - 10/31/09 09:11 AM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: JahjaMan]
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
What do you mean external audio interface? instead of getting a laptop you mean, record onto flash like I am currently doing?
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#1297365 - 10/31/09 06:35 PM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: mwf]
JahjaMan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 24
There are 2 types of sound cards.
One is an 'internal sound card', which is slotted inside a desktop pc. This type of sound card is connected directly to the computer's motherboard, bypassing the need for a USB cable.
The 'external sound card' is an external device which does not slot inside a pc. It can connect to both a desktop pc or a laptop via USB cable.

Hence the external audio interface title: it's an audio interface which is completely external to the pc or laptop.

If that confuses you, just think of the Hard Disk Drive inside the computer, and an External Hard Disk Drive you can buy from a shop to plug in via USB. Same thing!

Hope this helps. =)

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#1297689 - 11/01/09 12:01 PM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: JahjaMan]
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
Hi, thanks for your comments. You said why not get a 'proper external audio interface' just wondering what you meant by that. Cheers
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#1297707 - 11/01/09 12:43 PM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: mwf]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7124
Loc: torrance, CA
mwf,

Might be good to take a break and read this.

http://www.pianoclues.com/how-to-record-piano/

Follow the four links under How to Record Digital Piano
and the four under How to Record Midi
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Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1297821 - 11/01/09 04:27 PM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: mwf]
JahjaMan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 24
Oh "why not get a proper external audio interface" just meant:
Instead of buying an external sound card (like the SoundBlaster) that was made for computer gaming and movie purposes, wouldn't it be wiser to buy an Edirol or Yamaha audio interface that was made for the purposes of recording music?

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#1298031 - 11/02/09 02:05 AM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: JahjaMan]
fliper Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 212
Loc: Angola (Africa)

Here you have lot of information about home studios equipment
http://www.tweakheadz.com/assembling_your_recording_studio.htm
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#1298062 - 11/02/09 05:58 AM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: fliper]
JahjaMan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 24
To rephrase what I was trying to say earlier:
Soundblaster! produces both internal and external sound cards. However, since these were made with gaming and movies in mind, I was thinking that instead of purchasing one of the Soundblaster! external sound cards, it might be wiser to get an audio interface that was made specifically for audio recording.
Such as one made by Yamaha or Edirol and the like.

So sorry for the confusion.

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#1298279 - 11/02/09 01:13 PM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: JahjaMan]
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
Could you tell me a very decent one to get, maybe top of the range one, well I am looking to spend at most about £200 roughly that is. Cheers
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#1298469 - 11/02/09 07:16 PM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: mwf]
jrcallan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 361
Loc: Pennsylvania
For internal PCI cards, look at the Echo Mia Midi - really great card for about $170 US. With midi, digital (Spdif) and analog inputs and 1/4" audio outputs. Slamming clean recording.

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#1298625 - 11/03/09 12:54 AM Re: Recording audio from digital piano [Re: mwf]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: mwf
Could you tell me a very decent one to get, maybe top of the range one, well I am looking to spend at most about £200 roughly that is. Cheers


You should not have to spend so much unless you will want to also record a few other instuments and a mic or two at the same time. It sounds like you are only recording one DP, not an entire band. That should not require much in the way of equipment. So your budget is more then enough.

All you need is an interface with only two channels and you don't even care about mic preamps. Any of the USB interfaces made by E-MU, Edirol, Tascam Prosonus and so on. Look for one that has 1/4" phono jacks for inputs and does 24-bit samples at 96K per second.


Edited by ChrisA (11/03/09 12:59 AM)

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