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#1299035 - 11/03/09 05:06 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: ten left thumbs]
jazzwee Online   content
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6988
Loc: So. California
Thanks guys. If I just clean up my time a little more, I'll sound reasonable. Back to Metronome work.

Dave, what do you mean when you say he slides in and out of the changes? Are you talking about going outside?

I'm paying attention to Herbie's phrasing. I'm starting to more precisely see the differences in playing style between these guys. I figure if I learn how to duplicate them then my own voice will come out.
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#1299214 - 11/03/09 11:51 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Online   content
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6988
Loc: So. California
Hey Dave, I actually spent an entire hour just soloing on ATTYA with my LH with eighth notes. Something about watching the Mehldau video (part 1), clicked and stuff started coming out. This is actually the first time where I was able to do it continuously.

When I was doing this 2 handed thing with my teacher, he was sticking to the no-swing style like Bach. Maybe I challenged him but he can do a pretty good job now of the 2-handed.

But Mehldau's 2-handed is different because of the syncopation so it's more swingy. I find that to be easier for some reason. It's just difficult to get the time right. I just did it at 150bpm (LH only). Anyway, I'm hoping to catch up here as I abandoned the LH soloing while I built up the technique.

I hope to hear your version so there's something for me to copy. smile
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#1299691 - 11/04/09 09:47 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
dave solazzo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 160
Loc: syracuse ny
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
.

Dave, what do you mean when you say he slides in and out of the changes? Are you talking about going outside?


exactly. i meant going outside and implying different harmony.

herbie has all that great chromatic stuff where he weaves in and out of the chords. and of course the 8th notes are fantastic too.
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#1299697 - 11/04/09 09:59 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
dave solazzo Offline
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Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 160
Loc: syracuse ny
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Hey Dave, I actually spent an entire hour just soloing on ATTYA with my LH with eighth notes. Something about watching the Mehldau video (part 1), clicked and stuff started coming out. This is actually the first time where I was able to do it continuously.

When I was doing this 2 handed thing with my teacher, he was sticking to the no-swing style like Bach. Maybe I challenged him but he can do a pretty good job now of the 2-handed.

But Mehldau's 2-handed is different because of the syncopation so it's more swingy. I find that to be easier for some reason. It's just difficult to get the time right. I just did it at 150bpm (LH only). Anyway, I'm hoping to catch up here as I abandoned the LH soloing while I built up the technique.

I hope to hear your version so there's something for me to copy. smile


soloing with just the left hand in fun, isn't it? it's humbling too :-) and you come up with different ideas for lines just because the fingering is all different.

like your teacher, i find it easier to do the 2 handed stuff with straight 8ths, more like the bach style. i just naturally hear it more that way. i think it's much harder to do swing 8ths like mehldau does in this style.

yeah, i've got to post a version soon. i will. just been kind of busy lately with life and things.
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#1299721 - 11/04/09 11:20 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: dave solazzo]
jazzwee Online   content
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Posts: 6988
Loc: So. California
Yeah did it again today. And it got better. Before I started all this, I couldn't really control where my fingers went since it just naturally went to 1/5/7. Now I can actually make some lines. I have to deal with 4/5 weakness just like the RH. So same exercises are needed I think.

My LH feels different now. I feel like it has more strength.

I have to say though, I like it because it sounds really different. I'm gravitating towards the Mehldau way though because it gives a way to play the rhyhtm too.

BTW - on Herbie, my teacher was pointing out the Herbie syncopation. He'll go for long periods accenting the upbeat, then he'll syncopate with downbeat accents. That's part of what I'm doing now.
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#1300871 - 11/07/09 12:46 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Online   content
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6988
Loc: So. California
Dave, back to the LH stuff, do you ever notice what each person plays in the LH?

Take Mehldau for instance. Most of the quick stuff happens between the two thumbs. The LH notes tend to be longer or widely spaced (unless he's just playing the LH by itself). I've also been observing the syncopation and how that occurs with the LH and RH (in Brad's case). I can semi-emulate it but he syncopates too fast and I don't have the control yet.

But I think I know what to practice.

I don't think Mehldau plays particularly Bach-like. It's more of rhythmic thing. It's Jarrett that has more of that counterpoint thing.

I was watching my teacher play 2-handed and he's not doing it any differently than I am. The LH still provides the harmonic framework but how the notes interact with the RH makes it look busier than it really is. Like I said, two thumbs. Those two thumbs can do a lot. Mehldau does Ostinatos with them and the whole thing sounds almost Orchestral.

My point is, are we overthinking this?
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#1301288 - 11/07/09 08:58 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: bluekeys]
GPA Offline
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Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 54
Jazzwee

just purchased this 9"x11" paperback with $25.00 in loose change.
"Reharmonization Techniques" by Randy Felts, Associate Professor in the Berklee
College of Music. ISBN 0-634-01585-0. I have a question on page 9.

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#1301336 - 11/07/09 11:33 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: GPA]
jazzwee Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6988
Loc: So. California
GPA, I don't have that book. What's the question?

By the way, there's a whole thread on Reharmonization that I started recently (and am intending to continue). Take a look at that. And feel free to ask reharmonization questions there (or here).

Here's the link.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1284990/Nursery%20Rhymes%20Revisited:%20Reha.html#Post1284990
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#1301338 - 11/07/09 11:43 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
GPA Offline
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Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 54
TNx-J
I'll upload a staff sheet with the info and question on it-appreciate ur lnk, too.

Tnx Cathy for getting me to J

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#1302376 - 11/09/09 09:08 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
dave solazzo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 160
Loc: syracuse ny
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Dave, back to the LH stuff, do you ever notice what each person plays in the LH?

Take Mehldau for instance. Most of the quick stuff happens between the two thumbs. The LH notes tend to be longer or widely spaced (unless he's just playing the LH by itself). I've also been observing the syncopation and how that occurs with the LH and RH (in Brad's case). I can semi-emulate it but he syncopates too fast and I don't have the control yet.

But I think I know what to practice.

I don't think Mehldau plays particularly Bach-like. It's more of rhythmic thing. It's Jarrett that has more of that counterpoint thing.

I was watching my teacher play 2-handed and he's not doing it any differently than I am. The LH still provides the harmonic framework but how the notes interact with the RH makes it look busier than it really is. Like I said, two thumbs. Those two thumbs can do a lot. Mehldau does Ostinatos with them and the whole thing sounds almost Orchestral.

My point is, are we overthinking this?


maybe smile i like to under think things and simplify everything in my mind. it's just easier for me that way.

the mehldau approach is really amazing. i have got to really check it out more closely. i still love what hersch and petrucciani do with the 2 handed stuff too.

i had put the 2 handed improv on the back burner for the last few months. time to me to dust it off and get back to work on it.
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#1302438 - 11/09/09 10:56 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: dave solazzo]
jazzwee Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6988
Loc: So. California
Well you make me feel better about falling behind too. I do it, then I get frustrated and work on something else. But fortunately, things do get better the next time around.

The main interesting difference in the Mehldau way is that it sounds swingy with the syncopation. While the others sound like classical music. My teacher was pointing out that it's because the accents were on the downbeat. There's more to this than is obvious I guess.

It's not my goal to play 7/8 or some other odd meter. I'm mostly interested in the syncopation that occurs when you play in-between the notes.

Like when you play a Jazz Waltz, you play an implied 4/4 over the 3/4 and you get that syncopation feel that Chick Corea would use for example. I was trying to intellectualize all this and I can't. All I realize is that I was playing somewhere in between the beats.

Am I making sense?
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#1302440 - 11/09/09 10:59 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6988
Loc: So. California
I think one could intellectualize and say that playing some 4/4 rhythm over 3/4 is like using 12/4 or 24/8. But that doesn't explain the sound because it actually varies, like swing.
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#1302569 - 11/10/09 07:19 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
Inlanding Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 1631
Loc: Colorado
Here are a couple of very late night versions of Autumn Leaves and All The Things You Are.

I think because I was trying to play so quietly, the rhythm is a bit off. I'll have to give it a go during the daylight hours when I am fully functioning.

All The Things You Are

Autumn Leaves

Glen
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A Bit of YouTube

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#1302612 - 11/10/09 09:24 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: Inlanding]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2938
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
All,

I don't know if you've seen this Bill Evans interview on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIfHtPwF8wY&feature=related

Marie MacPartland has a bunch more for sell, many seem to be on emusic. I find this really enlightening. The Bill Evans interview is like him giving you a lesson. Much more in depth than other typical interviews.

For now, this whole CD is on youtube... so enjoy

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#1302652 - 11/10/09 10:31 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: Inlanding]
jazzwee Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6988
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: Inlanding
Here are a couple of very late night versions of Autumn Leaves and All The Things You Are.

I think because I was trying to play so quietly, the rhythm is a bit off. I'll have to give it a go during the daylight hours when I am fully functioning.

All The Things You Are

Autumn Leaves

Glen



Hey Glen, welcome. Fantastic to see someone new. You have a nice touch and nice voicings. That was a very enjoyable ballad style. You have a pretty nice base to start from here. Sounds like you've been playing awhile.

Count out your bars though since the length of each measure seems to keep changing. You get that licked and I'll be listening to you at some bar somewhere smile Nice swing too on AL. thumb

Tell us about yourself. How long have you been playing? Self-Taught?
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#1302656 - 11/10/09 10:39 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
jazzwee Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6988
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: knotty
All,

I don't know if you've seen this Bill Evans interview on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIfHtPwF8wY&feature=related

Marie MacPartland has a bunch more for sell, many seem to be on emusic. I find this really enlightening. The Bill Evans interview is like him giving you a lesson. Much more in depth than other typical interviews.

For now, this whole CD is on youtube... so enjoy


The quality of that sound is fantastic. What year was this? Often you hear Evans play and you don't appreciate his tone because of the bad acoustics. I think I heard this years ago on NPR but very low quality. What a find!
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#1302673 - 11/10/09 11:35 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
Inlanding Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 1631
Loc: Colorado
Hi Jazzwee, and all...

You are right, sometimes I get wrapped up in the sound and seem to add or subtract extra beats per measure...Musicians that play together don't suffer from this affliction as much, but I am aware of it and sometimes I actually keep good time and make the changes when I am supposed to!

I've always been around a piano since childhood, took ten months of jazz lessons back in high school, and only recently began studying classical music with a VERY patient Russian Conservatory trained teacher for the past year.

I guess you could say I am mostly self-taught, but I've received some good direction from my past teacher and can hear what notes go well with what notes - this is where I need to keep better time!

I aspire to the likes of Art Tatum, Ralph Sutton, Oscar Peterson, and Willie the Lion Smith, among all the others - they all have something to offer to any player, ie., ideas, syncopations, harmonies, etc.

Here are a couple more tunes, one an old standard, the other my creation. Hope you like these I recorded a couple of days ago...lots more to come, if you are interested.

Two Minutes of Your Time

That's All

Thanks for the warm welcome!

Glen
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March piano audio
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A Bit of YouTube

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#1302688 - 11/10/09 12:04 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: Inlanding]
jazzwee Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6988
Loc: So. California
That's fantastic Glen. Maybe you can share in the discussion. You certainly have very good tone so the training shows!

If there's anything you are working please share or pass along advice as well.
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#1302705 - 11/10/09 12:37 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
Inlanding Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 1631
Loc: Colorado
I find myself working on all sorts of pieces - here is one that is another constant work-in-progress. I am working also on a number of classical pieces (quite time-consuming, to say the least) smile

Polkadots and Moonbeams

Body and Soul

Glen
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March piano audio
https://app.box.com/s/evl3yyp1kj52ve8l069u


A Bit of YouTube

PTG Associate Member

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#1302790 - 11/10/09 02:49 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: Inlanding]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2938
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Quote:

What year was this? Often you hear Evans play and you don't appreciate his tone because of the bad acoustics. I think I heard this years ago on NPR but very low quality. What a find!

seems like this was 1978.

Check this out:
http://www.emusic.com/artist/Marian-McPartland-MP3-Download/10558721.html

There are a lot more of great pianists there. The sound quality is great, and the quality of the interview is much higher than the usual "how do you improvise" kinda stuff.
I don't know if you got to the over the bar line stuff and reharm section. It's deep and beautifully demonstrated.

The videos continue btw, part 2, 3, 4 etc...

Gonna cost me a few month's worth of downloads on emusic I think smile

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#1302807 - 11/10/09 03:22 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2938
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Glen,

sweet recordings. You have a great ear of harmony !

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#1302845 - 11/10/09 04:29 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
jazzwee Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6988
Loc: So. California
Two Minutes - I like your solo lines Glen! And a sweet touch! And barely any wandering on the barline on that one smile Looks like when you're aware of it, your time is quite good.

That's All - Nice balanced touch there, man. And I love that swing. And your lines sound really original phrasing wise. Now this one you occasionally wandered on the bar line, especially near the end.

Polka Dots - Nice ballad rendition!

Body and Soul - Love this tune. One of favorites and some interesting voicings there.

Looks to me like you're close to ready for prime time thumb

It sounds like you've been playing piano for a long time.
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#1302871 - 11/10/09 05:32 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
Inlanding Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 1631
Loc: Colorado
Jazzwee~~ This is great feedback - thank you so very much! There is so much to be gained from listening to others' playing and taking that feedback to heart! So glad to have found everyone here!

Knotty - Glad you enjoyed the tunes. Thank you for your kind words smile

Here are a few more in the meantime - all a work-in-progress. Such fun!

Not So Blues

Man I Love (choppy)

Points East

Glen
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March piano audio
https://app.box.com/s/evl3yyp1kj52ve8l069u


A Bit of YouTube

PTG Associate Member

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#1302882 - 11/10/09 05:50 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: Inlanding]
jazzwee Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6988
Loc: So. California
One thing about your playing Glen, even though it's a slow style, they all sound like jazz. From voicings to the solo lines thumb You've been hard at work!

I don't as much of a collection of slower tunes myself since most of my practice has been more uptempo. But there's only so much time smile
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#1302896 - 11/10/09 06:16 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
Inlanding Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 1631
Loc: Colorado
Jazzwee,
Thanks a bunch, but there is something about having a recording device that I find inhibiting. I'll get over it eventually.

I'll put up some pieces soon that are more uptempo, more to your liking.

Count Basie was not known for the number of notes he played, but the spaces between them...One of my favorite pianists, Nat King Cole never really played fast, but played great figures.

Art Tatum and Oscar Peterson, on the other hand...whoa!!! Cecil Taylor - double whoa!

Glen
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March piano audio
https://app.box.com/s/evl3yyp1kj52ve8l069u


A Bit of YouTube

PTG Associate Member

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#1302906 - 11/10/09 06:39 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: Inlanding]
jazzwee Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6988
Loc: So. California
Didn't say uptempo was more to my liking smile I'm the one deficient at the slower tempos. It's basically what I have to practice from lessons, trying to build up technique and good time. So it's just natural that for technical development it'll be more uptempo.

You'll encounter a poster here by the name of Gyro. He doesn't believe in metronomes. On the opposite side, my teacher is super-focused on my metronome use. Playing slow and evenly is pretty hard actually, especially with a metronome. You have all those spaces to get lost in.
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#1303000 - 11/10/09 09:52 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6988
Loc: So. California
Dave, I have a question for you. On the Herbie AL, what was he playing when he went outside? I don't know what key it's in but just listening to the first part it sounds like complete substitution to me.

Did you try to figure out what he was doing? Maybe he substituted a major chord a tritone away or something like that from the major chords?
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#1303154 - 11/11/09 10:11 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
dave solazzo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 160
Loc: syracuse ny
hey jazzwee,

not really sure what herbie was playing on AL. i played along with it once and tried to get a few of his phrases. seems like he's doing a lot of chromatic stuff. and at times he is definitely implying different harmony with both his lines and his left hand. there are some really cool superimpositions in there.

i'm going to work with again and see if i can take more from it.

btw, is there a way to slow down a youtube video to half speed? what's the best way to do that?
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#1303304 - 11/11/09 01:40 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: dave solazzo]
jazzwee Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6988
Loc: So. California
The only way I know to do it is to record the speaker output to create a WAV file and then read it in transcribe. Kind of complicated. I don't have that software anymore.

Assuming he's playing it in G/Em, I noticed he went outside at GMaj7 and CMaj7 and F#m7b5 at the beginning there. I've been studying his phrasing style and wasn't really concerned about the changes, but it was interesting what he did.
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#1303431 - 11/11/09 04:48 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
Inlanding Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 1631
Loc: Colorado
Hi Jazzwee,

Funny how our teachers influence us...My teacher keeps suggesting to me, "if you can't play it correctly slowly, how can you play it correctly faster?".

A bit of a conundrum...

Here is an experimental piece I improvised because of your influence on me to pick up the pace (a darn good idea!) Long Way 'round

Thanks, Jazzwee!

More tunes located here from last night - hope you like 'em.
Nov 10 practice session

Glen
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March piano audio
https://app.box.com/s/evl3yyp1kj52ve8l069u


A Bit of YouTube

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