Hello,

I submitted a video to the contest as well and I am curious whether there any other pianoworld members in the contest.

http://www.youtube.com/user/VanCliburnFoundation#g/c/5093B44F7AEC37D6

Hakki.

VERY nice!

Thanks for posting. I enjoyed you playing.

That was an really nice performance, Hakki.

Youtube user equitater (Chopin Op. 9 No. 3 in the competition) has posted here before. Some really fine playing from everyone. Probably my favorite is Bob Ekelund. That guy is an economist by profession, and he sure plays well!

Hakki, I can't seem to find your video...

http://www.youtube.com/user/VanCliburnFoundation#p/c/5093B44F7AEC37D6/19/8quZFV8Fj6Y

edit:
or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8quZFV8Fj6Y

Ah, thank you.

Bravo Hakki !

BTW, what kind of piano are you playing on in that vid ? I ask because I'm still in my grand piano search. Sounds very nice !

Wow, thanks for sharing... you play very well!

I have been planning to enter this in a few years, but in '10 I will be 2 years too young to join the Amateur contest, so I have to wait til 2016!

Nicely done! Thank you for sharing.

Hakki, that was fantastic! You should win the contest. As a fellow engineer it really warms my heart to see an engineer play like that! What is your piano history?

I didn't have time to listen to all of it...but a big BRAVO for what I did hear! Thanks for sharing.

Did you go to a music school (received degree in piano performance?)
You sound like a professional pianist...very good...Good luck

Having read the rule, I think you may not be eligible to compete, for you make money from teaching piano, accompanist, etc.

Thank you all for the very kind words.

My piano is a Kawai RX-2.

I must admit that it sounds better from the point where the mics are recording (2 mics 18 inches apart, about 5 ft. away from the rim of the piano and 5 ft. high)
compared to the player's position.

I did not go to any piano school and don't have a degree in piano performance.

I had private lessons for about 9 years in my teens. My teacher was a professor at the conservatory and developing a solid technique was very important for him, so I studied Hanon, Czerny etc. a lot.

Hakki.

I do not derive my principal means of income from teaching or playing piano, so I qualify.

Hhmmmm, you are like Daniel Barenboim then....His main income is conducting. Playing piano is just his side business.

What is your main income, by the way?

It seems so many people who should be considered professional take advantage of these amateur piano competition for personal exposure. As my teacher said it is a disgrace for anybody who have piano degree to participate in any amateur piano competition.

People who did not pursue a degree in music have all the right to join any amateur competitions, otherwise, it is not appropriate for those who had dedicated the first 24 years of their life to play piano seriously to compete against amateurs.

Wow, is this for real?

I am a homeschooling mother of 3. My husband supports us. I teach a small handful of students and accompany on the side as I have time. I don't bring in enough money from my teaching or accompaniment to support one person, let alone 5.

I've been playing the piano forever, but for a few years after I had kids, I barely had time to touch the piano. It is only in the last 3 years that I have picked it back up again. Considering myself a professional would be pretty laughable, although I would like to think that I am a musician at heart and have something to say to the world.

Why the hostility? Don't we all deserve a shot (if we meet the eligibility requirements)? I don't recall in the Amateur competition rules that you can't enter if you went to school for music.

It has been a dream of mine for many years to enter this competition. I feel that I spent too many of my younger years not taking my piano playing seriously enough, and I am working very hard toward this. I am so grateful that this competition is out there to inspire people like me who need dreams and goals to work toward.

I don't care if I win. I just want to challenge myself to enter. Getting through the preliminary round would be great. But really, having a goal to get my playing back up to a level that is good enough to enter, would be a fantastic achievement for me.

It boggles my mind that someone could have a problem with my entering this, if I meet the eligibility requirements. It's too bad that this is not a more supportive environment. I was thinking that it would be nice to be able to talk about this here as the time comes. Oh well.

An amateur is not just someone who has no formal training. An amateur is someone who does not perform whatever skill you're talking about for a living, just as Sparkler said.

I consider myself an amateur even though I have a graduate degree in music. It's not my day job.

Sparkler, don't take Ronald Steinway's post to heart. He has a bee in his bonnet about amateur competitions. In fact, I can't recall any of his posts that haven't been on this topic. I'd just ignore him. I think you'll find that just about everyone else here will be most supportive.

Bottom line. If the rules say you're eligible, you're eligible. If RS wants to protest about amateur competitions and their regulations, he should protest to the organisers of the comp in question.

Wonderful performance, Hakki! Congrats!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG3rtfHzG9c - Thang is a regular poster here at PW too.


M.

Anybody who had piano degree knows at the bottom of their heart that they are not supposed to compete against real amateurs. If you have a degree in piano performance, your initial intention of pursuing that degree is to take piano playing as your career. In addition, if you were accepted as a piano major student, you must be way above normal amateur, you must have practiced way more than normal people who went for different major in a university. Therefore, your quality of playing was not comparable to amateur anymore. Only dishonest person will not acknowledge this.

By the way, for those who have degree in piano performance, there is a piano competition especially for you, so you can compete against each other who have the same background. I believe it is more satisfying than competing against real amateurs.

http://www.richtercompetition.com/2008/

While ever you are using this definition of professional=a really really good player, amateur=a NOT really really good player then we'll keep having this discussion. We (I and obviously the organisers of the competition as well) are using the definition of amateur=one who does not earn his/her living from playing the piano. You cannot impose a guilt trip on anyone who enters in good faith according to the rules of the competition. Well, I suppose YOU can, as you just have, but there is no justification for it.

Perhaps my definition of amateur seems arbitrary. After all, it would include someone who makes a living accompanying beginner violinists with simple oom-pa accompaniments, as well as the concert pianist playing Rach3. But your definition is equally arbitrary. Not everyone entering a performance degree is doing it as a career path; a conservatorium graduate is not necessarily a better pianist than someone who has been working solidly with a private teacher for years (I've heard examples of this myself); and we all know that different institutions set the bar at different levels for entry.

So, the only thing we can do is accept the rules of the individual competition. Choose another competition if you don't like them. Pester the organisers if you want to. But for goodness sake don't pile this dishonesty stuff onto someone like Sparkler! This problem you have with amateur competitions is yours, not hers.

Defining amateur and professional for competitions is always tricky.

Somewhere out there is a "professional" pianist who barely made it through an undergraduate performance degree at Small Inconsequential College studying with Dr. Dime-a-Dozen. They passed their senior recital on attempt #2 and now teach 30 beginning private students and accompany the choir at their church. They practice on one of the upright pianos they use in their home studio.

Also somewhere out there is an "amateur" pianist who studied and practiced diligently throughout high school, taking lessons from Dr. Vladimir Awesomeovich, winning state competitions and playing Chopin concerti with their high school orchestra. They continued playing during their pre-med degree and got serious again after completing residency, eventually purchasing a new Steinway B for their recital-hall-sized living room at home where they often perform at the piano parties they host for their friends.

Judging by a lot of measurements, the professional I described above has a marked advantage against the amateur. Pitting them against each other seems unethical and unfair.

But for who?

You are correct not all but generally they do choose playing piano as their career. Actually, making money on music is not the important factor. The most important factor is the knowledge. People who went to music school must practice hard, I do not care how bad the quality of the university, they must have decent standard. The professor must have at least master degree. So for sure, they require the students to be able to play with decent quality. To play decently, 99.9% of piano performance student MUST practice harder than most people who just take lesson privately. On top of the regular piano classes, these students learn complete package of musicianship, from history, harmony, etc etc, that will enrich their way of playing piano. How many of non piano major learn other than learning how to play piano. You cannot really compare people who study music intensively for 4 years with people who just take lesson once a week or even once a month.

You always use exception, but your exception is only 0.001% of the population of the sample. There is always somebody who can play well even without piano teacher. We need to use the general population. If you pull 100 piano performance students randomly, and then pull another 100 non piano performance students who play piano, I bet, at least, 95% of the piano major students will play better than those who are not a piano major. Are you assuming Sparkle belongs to the 5% of those piano major students? Since the high chance of piano major students play better than people who do not have piano degree, we should exclude the whole population. Or we can have a rule such as only piano major students with GPA 2.5 or less are allowed to join the amateur competition. Including banning all major conservatory graduates from amateur competitions. It is virtually impossible to have Moscow Conservatory, Juilliard or Curtis graduates who will not place in any amateur competition.

Well, as you seem to have the statistics, take them to the competition organisers.

In the meantime, Sparkler and others like her are neither being dishonest nor taking advantage of others, say what you will.

Nice job Hakki, and a devilish piece to pull off.

Yeah, you are one of them so you cannot see and not willing to acknowledge the dishonesty....Again, an honest human being knows it is WRONG!!!!....You and Sparkle alike are totally in denial, and sadly take an advantage of the loop holes for personal glory. It is a disgrace.

People like Hakki has the full right to compete in any amateur competitions. He did not go to a music school, he plays piano just purely from the love of playing piano.

why do you choose to be such a boor, RS?

You are like a bulldog with someone's leg in their jaws. You won't let go no matter what.

Your 'statistics' are a transparent device to bolster your completely rigid opinion, nothing more. None of the competitors are drawn from 'the general population.' The entire exercise is self-selection from the tail of the distribution. Appealing to the broader distribution is intellectually bogus.

That was outstanding Hakki. Best of luck in the competition.

Sam