Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#1300755 - 11/06/09 07:59 PM Re: The most misunderstood words in Jazz [Re: nitekatt2008z]
tremens, delirium Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 155
Originally Posted By: nitekatt2008z

My philosophy is, in order to play effective jazz piano, get your technique to the max and use it when necessary to burn on a solo and make the audience sweat a little after hearing you blow some terrific, inspiring HD lines.
katt


silence plays too, in fact that distinguishes mature player performance from the beginner. But I agree, nothing wrong with developing techniques to the max although usually the better you are the less you show off.

Top
Piano & Music Accessories
#1300803 - 11/06/09 10:10 PM Re: The most misunderstood words in Jazz [Re: tremens, delirium]
YadielOmar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 66
Loc: P.R.
So you're basically saying jazz should be limited to pentatonics, chromatic approaches and the natural timbrial properties of said instrument in question while maintained a fairly limited amount of technical virtuosity and also maintaining a limited use of dissonance and rhythmic complexity... Well that's no fun!

Not to say that I don't agree with some of the things you are saying, silence is very important and the excessive use of random notes is annoying, but basically calling Michel Petrucciani an amateur is a pretty ballsy statement. As JazzWee stated; Jazz is the 'Musician's Music' I play for the people when I'm out giging for some artist or band, when I'm playing jazz or any sub-genre inspired by it I am more occupied with having a good time with fellow musicians and expressing myself though my instrument.

Honda makes formula one cars and even though you don't see them on the streets you see the advancements made on there road cars.... sometimes in those random flurry of notes something beautiful and different can emerge

Top
#1300833 - 11/06/09 11:05 PM Re: The most misunderstood words in Jazz [Re: YadielOmar]
nitekatt2008z Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 552
I have basically analyzed 3 types of jazz piano players. One set of players has developed an adequate technique and reading ability from classical studies and uses it to their advantage. They grab a few lick books that have some pentatonic jazz patterns and another more traditional be-bop pattern set. They go through the books, pick out what they like, memorize some of the patterns and learn them in several or all 12 keys. They can predict what will sound good over a particular set of changes. And they don't take chances, they know what works and uses it to their advantage. Not improvisation exactly, but a set of "recipes" that taste and sound ok.

The second player may or may not be technically adept in classical, possibly not a good reader, but spent a lot of time listening to jazz records and developed a good ear and has done a fair share of transcribing. Theoretically, they may not know what they're playing, but whatever they play is unique and sounds good on a tune and a set of changes.

Player no 3 has the whole gamut, technique, feel, the ears, good reading chops and can play about anything they put their mind to.

I will hear some good players that basically have a set of predetermined licks and basically play the same patterns over and over on any tune, not really improvisation, or 100 % creative, but they are getting a sound good enough to land the gig and please themselves.

Player 2 knows a few pre-determined licks that sound good, except this player uses his/her ear more as an instinct and takes risks in improvisations. this player might sink or blow it time to time, but might be the more creative player than player one. Player 3 has it all and can do anything and everything. This class of player might fit into the Bill Evans, Oscar P, Chick c, Herbie H, Michel P, etc.

So all three players have done their homework and put the time into what it takes to be a decent jazz musician. There are no wrongs or rights in either choice of the 3 types of players methods either.

I heard a lady pianist, great classical background, great sight reader, so she went out and got all the famous jazz pianists transcription books and could read and play any of the pages. The only problem was for her was, she couldn't improvise, she could only read and play what was written. give her a set of changes or a tune and ask her to blow on it and she didn't have a clue on what direction to take to tap into her own creativity. But with the right teacher perhaps, she may develop and get positive results.

But it really gets into the area of whether a jazz piano player wants to play for themselves and entertain friends or aspires to be a working pro. To be a pro takes a lot of work and other jazz musicians, the better players will expect higher standards if they are paying you for your art. If that is the case, honestly the player will have to learn to be a great soloist. And the players that do get paid can cut the soloist part pretty well. They don't necessarily have to play a lot of notes on a solo, just the right ones the sound good.

I think it depends on what direction the player wants to take.

katt


Edited by nitekatt2008z (11/06/09 11:10 PM)

Top
#1300887 - 11/07/09 01:24 AM Re: The most misunderstood words in Jazz [Re: nitekatt2008z]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
Interesting side note, Herbie Hancock's River album, the one of Joni Mitchell songs, sold "only" 50,000 copies before winning the Grammy Album of the Year. After that, it sold another 50,000, so about 100,000 total.

Pretty good for a jazz album but for music sales a pittance. I think the biggest sellers in jazz are Diana Krall, Michael Buble, Norah Jones and Jamie Cullum. They are all singers first, and some play the piano but the mass audience doesn't care about that.

Face it, jazz will never be a mainstream music.

Top
#1300900 - 11/07/09 02:01 AM Re: The most misunderstood words in Jazz [Re: Wizard of Oz]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7086
Loc: So. California
Neither is Classical. Let's face it. Instrumental music limits the market.

On the other hand, I'm watching these videos of Brad Mehldau and was noticing the size of the audience, especially in international venues. Maybe it's just a US thing.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Moderator:  sharpsandflats 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Request opinion YC G-175
by ivoryguy36
09/23/14 08:31 PM
"Break Free" by Ariana Grande on Piano
by Zach Evans
09/23/14 06:37 PM
V-Grand delivery on Friday!
by TonyB
09/23/14 06:36 PM
Kawai CE220 CA65 cabinet vibrations
by origen
09/23/14 04:43 PM
Baldwin 243 for Grade 4 students - Advice please!
by LeslieG
09/23/14 04:39 PM
Who's Online
120 registered (accordeur, 36251, anotherscott, 34 invisible), 1208 Guests and 13 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76297 Members
42 Forums
157715 Topics
2316647 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission