 |
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
|
|
66 members (AlkansBookcase, brdwyguy, 20/20 Vision, Charles Cohen, 36251, benkeys, clothearednincompo, bcalvanese, booms, 10 invisible),
1,967
guests, and
255
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,572
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,572 |
Speaking of Thelonious Monk, there's a film which includes a kind of jazz-rap that has the line:
"Thelonious Monk, a melodious thunk".
The first one to name this film and state who it is that pronounces this rap wins a year's supply.
Last edited by landorrano; 11/10/09 06:06 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 552
500 Post Club Member
|
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 552 |
You know there is no one like him, he is one of a kind.. you hear people copying Bill Evans, or Oscar Peterson, but not Monk. If there is such thing as a voice on an instrument, then he truly has one. Kenny Werner once said "do you think Theolonius Monk himself will actually be able make the audition Monk Institute? You love his music for what it is.. And for me I can appreciate him a lot better when I can drop my expectations for what jazz piano is supposed to sound like. dvpjazz&daro I don't know firsthand, bur rumor has it that tremens did post his own music in a jazz forum and people were laughing at him because his music was so...you know what. I figured, it's like some sports fan who talk all this crap about their team and atheletes..it's easy to criticize people when you aren't the one pouring your heart out on the stage/stadium.. But who knows may be we are all wrong and he is right, and he is actually that brilliant, in that case, I do wonder why the whole world doesn't know about his music. Maybe he can enlighten us as to how ignorant we are with his brilliant playing  That's right etc, they broke the mold when they "designed" T Monk. He had one of the most original piano styles that would be nearly impossible to duplicate. It might be easier transcribing Keith J, Bill E or Oscar Peterson, which other pianists have already done. The interesting thing about Monk that I read and there are several books about his journey in the jazz world in his period, was on live gigs, when he was on, HE WAS ON, but when he wasn't, he would appear a little distracted, not focused. That's too bad that tremens posted his music on youtube and people made fun of his music? Is that right? I hope it didn't do a number on him and made him detour from his goals as a musician. If that's so trem, forget what those "critics" say and keep moving forward. katt
Last edited by nitekatt2008z; 11/10/09 06:35 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,572
2000 Post Club Member
|
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,572 |
My opinion is that with Monk, they didn't break the mold, they made the mold. Monk is the mold. He is one of the molds that shaped jazz to come.
One oughtn't confound his psychological instability with his artictic genious, which was solidly founded.
It isn't a question simply of his playing style, his improvisation and accompanying styles. In anycase, his style is not unrelated to other players in jazz. Just have a listen to Ellington.
Also there is a great deal of direct influence of Monk's playing in many players that follow.
But I don't think that that is the most important.
There is a way to look at Monk as a genious, who taught himself to play, who wrote some lovely songs that have become standards, danced around on stage, and who then disappeared without leaving a trace. No disciples, no imitators, no Sonny Stitt for Monk. Plus, a bit of condescension for his crazyness.
But as I said, it appears difficult to identify the importance of Monk only because it is so great.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 121
Full Member
|
|
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 121 |
Speaking of imitating Monk: Bud Powell had an album titled Portrait Of Thelonious Monk. It is uncanny how Bud sounds like Monk on it.
And regarding Monk's pianistic style: I believe there is an anecdotal account in a biography about how Monk showed his imitation of Bud's style to a guy, and despite his amazement Monk asked him to never speak about it. If you read the biography, please remind me what the title is.
I really do believe that Monk played the way he did because he chose to, not for the lack of technique. His earlier records show a much less disjunctive style. In fact, he plays a very great stride style left hand when he wanted to. Check out his "Solo Monk" and "Thelonious Monk Plays Duke Ellington." Therefore I believe that his deficient technique is largely misunderstand and exaggerated.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,045
3000 Post Club Member
|
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,045 |
watch this towards the very end where Billy Taylor talks about Monk playing like Tatum. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DHAC2aGt1Q
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 552
500 Post Club Member
|
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 552 |
Here is a link to one of my favorite monk tunes Pannonica, Chick Corea's version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wt76nm8TlgAll the famous jazz musicians and not so famous have played Monk's tunes. He was really a prolific songwriter, one of the greatest ever. Of course he could play too. With the exception of Bill Evans or Chick Corea as composers, Monk probably wrote a lot more "hits" that have become standards in the Real Books. Just last night I started transcribing a few bars of Pannonica ala Chick Corea. Still haven't seen some of the DVD's of Monk, but plan too soon katt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 80
Full Member
|
|
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 80 |
Knotty, thanks for that link. I think I had read an account of that before but never heard/seen it and that was tremendous! Interesting that Monk was compared to Art Tatum, something so unlike his "sound". This ability to play was alluded to by Mary Lou Williams in her session on PianoJazz as well. I believe that Mary Lou was very perturbed by people indicating that Monk couldn't really play. She said she had heard him play "...lots of piano" i.e. more like say Art Tatum, but that Monk WANTED to sound like that - it was his statement!
'buff
Charles Walter model 1500 upright
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 32,060
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 32,060 |
Somewhere on the BBC site, I listened to an interview with Dave Brubeck where he talked about he and Iola went to have dinner with the Monks, and not a word was said. Later Dave met Nellie, who told him how Thelonius always talked about how much he enjoyed that dinner.
T. S., at a discussion before a show, talked about how his father reacted when he said he wanted to learn the drums. Thelonius had never said anything about learning music to him before, but his first words were, "What took you so long!" Then he called up one of his contacts to get a set of drums, and another for lessons (both famous names, but I forget who they were). That was it, it was not discussed again until Thelonius said it was time for T. S. to sit in with him.
Semipro Tech
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 838
500 Post Club Member
|
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 838 |
Eventualy Miles and Coltrane both didn't want to play with Monk anymore. Miles said he couldn't play with those weird chords behind his trumpet solos. Miles got Red Garland, then Wynton Kelly, and Coltrane went on to McCoy Tyner.
I like Monk's streamlined solo piano recordings. They are rather simple and traditional except for some of his dissonance and odd fills. They are great examples of minimilism.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 112
Full Member
|
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 112 |
Wow - some incredible posts - thanks for all the info/opinions/suggestions guys Really interesting to hear peoples opinions of Monk (except tremens, delirium who seems to just be trolling IMO). I try to contain my excitement when I find new things in Jazz, because I'm still new to it, and what's interesting to me is probably old news to most of you guys. But I have to say that something about Monk's style & sound REALLY draws me to it - I love the quirkyness, and the sort of jagged/dissonance - its awesome. I find his technique really interesting to watch (on youtube). I'd love to be able to play in that style. I bought the "Complete Blue Note Recordings" and so far my favourite tunes are "Straight, No Chaser", "Four in One", "I Mean You", "Well you needn't", "Blue Monk" just to name a few. I also think that his character... his edginess, and eccentric stage precense is really intriging, even by todays standards. I think he was ahead of his time! Thanks again guys PS. I'd seen that Hans Groiner youtube video before - absolutely gold - cracked me up!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 552
500 Post Club Member
|
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 552 |
Eventualy Miles and Coltrane both didn't want to play with Monk anymore. Miles said he couldn't play with those weird chords behind his trumpet solos. Miles got Red Garland, then Wynton Kelly, and Coltrane went on to McCoy Tyner.
I like Monk's streamlined solo piano recordings. They are rather simple and traditional except for some of his dissonance and odd fills. They are great examples of minimilism.
I heard the same thing about Monk and Miles. Some pianists perform better solo, they are not always the best fit in a trio or group. I think that is Monk's case, he was probably experiementing with reharmonizations on the bandstand. katt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,461
1000 Post Club Member
|
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,461 |
katt,
Coltrane went through the same thing with Bill, because Bill's comping wasn't as rhythmic/swinging as someone like McCoy Tyner. And Miles complained that McCoy bang on the piano too much. I guess even the top players don't get along sometimes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 552
500 Post Club Member
|
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 552 |
Hey Etcetra. Bill seemed to play and feel the most comfortable in his trios where he had total control. He played with Stan Getz, but they had some problems and then Tony Bennett stayed on him to be his solo accompanist on the CD.
Also, Bill didn't want to be considered a side man because he shined on his own cloud. Never heard that Coltrane wouldn't work with Bill after Kind of Blue. Interesting. And even McCoy had his own trios though time. Art Tatum was a better solo pianist than in a group and if you can play like Tatum, who needs a group anyway?
That might be a good subject on the forum here. What does it take to be a successful jazz pianist/keyboardist in a group. What to play and what not to play?
katt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,572
2000 Post Club Member
|
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,572 |
Wow - some incredible posts - thanks for all the info/opinions/suggestions guys Really interesting to hear peoples opinions of Monk (except tremens, delirium who seems to just be trolling IMO). I try to contain my excitement when I find new things in Jazz, because I'm still new to it, and what's interesting to me is probably old news to most of you guys. But I have to say that something about Monk's style & sound REALLY draws me to it - I love the quirkyness, and the sort of jagged/dissonance - its awesome. I find his technique really interesting to watch (on youtube). I'd love to be able to play in that style. I bought the "Complete Blue Note Recordings" and so far my favourite tunes are "Straight, No Chaser", "Four in One", "I Mean You", "Well you needn't", "Blue Monk" just to name a few. I also think that his character... his edginess, and eccentric stage precense is really intriging, even by todays standards. I think he was ahead of his time! Thanks again guys PS. I'd seen that Hans Groiner youtube video before - absolutely gold - cracked me up! Have you seen the film, "Straight, No Chaser"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,461
1000 Post Club Member
|
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,461 |
katt,
Bill's playing is highly arranged in some ways, so I can see why he likes the control he has in his trio. I am noticing the same thing with Brad Mehldau.. he doesn't do nearly as much as a sidemen, and you can tell they both work a lot of things together as a trio that wouldn't work in other contexts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 889
500 Post Club Member
|
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 889 |
But I have to say that something about Monk's style & sound REALLY draws me to it - I love the quirkyness, and the sort of jagged/dissonance - its awesome. I find his technique really interesting to watch (on youtube). I felt the same when I first heard Monk over 3 years ago. I was drawn to his sound. Drawn in such a way that I had to transcribe a bit of his intro to Round Midnight. My fingers just had to experience what he was doing. A year or so after discovering Monk, I learned that he was born in Rocky Mount NC. Rocky Mount is a 20 minute car ride from where I now live. Maybe there is something in the atmosphere that drew me to his sound.  I just found a good link that talks about how his early roots in Rocky Mount may have influenced his music. Hopefully, you find it interesting -- I certainly did. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15159351Barb
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 155
Full Member
|
|
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 155 |
Eventualy Miles and Coltrane both didn't want to play with Monk anymore. Miles said he couldn't play with those weird chords behind his trumpet solos. Miles got Red Garland, then Wynton Kelly, and Coltrane went on to McCoy Tyner.
bingo! p.s. was his name
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 838
500 Post Club Member
|
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 838 |
Actually, Coltrane got Tommy Flanagan first then McCoy Tyner.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 838
500 Post Club Member
|
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 838 |
Coltrane stopped Monk at a recording session and asked him to explain what was going on harmonicaly. Monk said "You are the great Coltrane, just listen!" That reminds me of something delirium would say.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 19
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 19 |
Coltrane stopped Monk at a recording session and asked him to explain what was going on harmonicaly. Monk said "You are the great Coltrane, just listen!" That reminds me of something delirium would say.
Haha, I read in the Miles Davis Biography that Monk didn´t like the way Miles played "Round Midnight" even though the crowd loved it. Miles confronted Monk about about the fact the crowd loved it and also retorted in a jokingly manner that perhaps Monk was jealous. Apparently Monk didn´t get the joke because he got out of the car/taxi in the middle of nowhere! They never spoke of the incident again.
|
|
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,392
Posts3,349,293
Members111,634
| |
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
