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#1299492 - 11/04/09 02:54 PM Chopin Op. 10 No. 9, Op. 10 No. 12, Op. 25 No. 4
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1630
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
In an effort to strengthen the sinister side of my piano playing, I've decided to take up three Chopin etudes: Op. 10 No. 9 (F minor), Op. 10 No. 12 (C minor) and Op. 25 No. 4 (A minor). The problem is that I can only learn one etude at a time (long story, but life tends to do that). I am seeking opinions on what order I should learn the three etudes. Would a particular sequence have a benefit of building -- i.e., learning one would be easier because another was learned before?

After reading through them, I'm inclined to the sequence of F minor, A minor, then C minor. My hunch is that doing the F minor first would make the A minor easier, since extensions and leaps are related techniques. But the Revolutionary (Guard?) is a finger study, so I'm not so sure whether I should tackle it before or after the other two.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
_________________________
Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

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#1299497 - 11/04/09 02:58 PM Re: Chopin Op. 10 No. 9, Op. 10 No. 12, Op. 25 No. 4 [Re: Janus K. Sachs]
BruceD Offline
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Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 15279
Loc: Victoria, BC
I wouldn't think that it would matter greatly in what order you studied them, since each works on a slightly different aspect of technique. I can't see that learning one would to any great degree help in learning another.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony

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#1299502 - 11/04/09 03:10 PM Re: Chopin Op. 10 No. 9, Op. 10 No. 12, Op. 25 No. 4 [Re: BruceD]
mr_roberts_z Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Canada
Quote:
i.e., learning one would be easier because another was learned before?
I don't think they particularly focus on any techniques in common.

I'd do F minor, C minor, A minor; just easiest to hardest from those three, IMO.

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#1299542 - 11/04/09 04:38 PM Re: Chopin Op. 10 No. 9, Op. 10 No. 12, Op. 25 No. 4 [Re: mr_roberts_z]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 14242
I would play a lot of stride pieces before doing the a minor.

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#1299884 - 11/05/09 10:03 AM Re: Chopin Op. 10 No. 9, Op. 10 No. 12, Op. 25 No. 4 [Re: pianoloverus]
ConcertEtudes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/06/09
Posts: 82
Op.25 no.4 isn't really sinister imo... and it trains totally different techniques than the other two.

Op.10 No.9 is much easier than the other two. I played that one first and it probably helped me a little on Op.10 No.12 since both are etudes for the left hand, and in both the right hand plays octave chords.

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#1300221 - 11/05/09 10:17 PM Re: Chopin Op. 10 No. 9, Op. 10 No. 12, Op. 25 No. 4 [Re: ConcertEtudes]
PartyPianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 281
All three offer different challenges, but opus 25 no 4 addresses "higher technique" training issues. I would start with the revolutionary, personally, as that is a measure of dexterity and speed. No. 9 is a touch exercise which would be a good precurser to the extremely difficult no 4. You would be advised to do all of opus 10 before doing any of opus 25. Even Opus 25 no 9 will have a whole new meaning after you have mastered the other set.
_________________________
You play it & I'll hum it, but currently rehearsing:

Bach WTC book 2 no 15 G major, no 20 A minor, no 22 Bb Minor
Mozart A minor Sonata K310
Mendelssohn Op 35 preludes and fuges
Busoni Carmen Fantasy
Rachmaninov Bb prelude OP 23 no 2
Lyapunov Humoreske Op 34
and others

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#1300262 - 11/06/09 12:21 AM Re: Chopin Op. 10 No. 9, Op. 10 No. 12, Op. 25 No. 4 [Re: PartyPianist]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 15279
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: PartyPianist
[...]You would be advised to do all of opus 10 before doing any of opus 25.


What is the rationale behind that statement?

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony

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#1300453 - 11/06/09 12:07 PM Re: Chopin Op. 10 No. 9, Op. 10 No. 12, Op. 25 No. 4 [Re: Janus K. Sachs]
euler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 44
Loc: NYC, USA
Janus,

Out of curiousity, how did you choose those three etudes in particular? Do they address specific technical issues you are looking to overcome, do you enjoy them musically, did your teacher recommend them, etc.

Tackling those three pieces is certainly a substantial undertaking, best of luck and keep us posted smile

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#1300469 - 11/06/09 12:28 PM Re: Chopin Op. 10 No. 9, Op. 10 No. 12, Op. 25 No. 4 [Re: euler]
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1630
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
Many thanks for all your responses. Keep 'em coming, please.
Originally Posted By: euler
Janus,

Out of curiousity, how did you choose those three etudes in particular? Do they address specific technical issues you are looking to overcome, do you enjoy them musically, did your teacher recommend them, etc.

Tackling those three pieces is certainly a substantial undertaking, best of luck and keep us posted smile
The left side of my pianistic mechanism simply isn't as good as the right side -- despite (or perhaps because of) being left handed. I'm hoping the three etudes will help in this regard (and maybe they'll serve as stepping stones to Ravel's Concerto for left hand). The Bach-Brahms Chaconne and the big Bartok Study in Bb (both for left hand alone) are in my repertoire. The three etudes are a continuation of this path.

It goes without saying that they're all musically appealing to me. IMHO Chopin is the most consistent composer of the first half of the 19th century.
_________________________
Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

Top
#1300511 - 11/06/09 01:31 PM Re: Chopin Op. 10 No. 9, Op. 10 No. 12, Op. 25 No. 4 [Re: Janus K. Sachs]
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Janus, I didn't contribute yet to this thread because I thought it would be redundant.

As has been mentioned, conventional wisdom is that (1) the order of increasing difficulty is 10/9 < 10/12 < 25/4, and (2) 25/4 is significantly harder than the first two.

I reckon that's because, generally speaking, broken chords are found less daunting than fast scalar passages, and unrelenting skips are considered more challenging than either.

I agree, too, that the specific techniques are sufficiently disparate that learning order isn't dictated by any one etude building upon another.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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