It's not "fascinating", you're just being sarcastic. I can count on one hand the people I've gotten into arguments with at PW, but you'd need a centipede to count people you've argued with.

Any reasonable person can understand that "Learn how to count and get back to us" was obnoxious.

Q.E.D.

It wasn't sarcasm. It was a statement of truth that pathology fascinates me.

I put my own posting record up against yours any day. People can judge for themselves.

Steven

Utter nonsense.

Thanks, Horowitzian, for taking the time to check the facts. I had the same funny feeling that the "39 out of 40" stat was wide of the mark. I wasn't ambitious enough to go back and check all of the prelim. performances. But I did review a selection of the finals performances for all six finalists and discovered something interesting. There seems to have been a fair amount of jumping from one piano to the next among the finalists. For example, Haochen Zhang (who you show as playing the lacquer NY D in the prelims) played the Hamburg for both his Mozart and Prokofiev concertos. Mariangela Vacatello went in the opposite direction; she abandoned the Hamburg D she used in the prelims to play the lacquer NY D in the finals. And I can't be sure, but it looks to me like Tsujii may have switched from the poly C&A D he started on to the Hamburg for the finals. No wonder people got confused.

Still, your basic point is right: the NY Steinways held their own in Fort Worth, even if one of them went in disguise. Thanks for the leg work.

I think the subject of hammer lacquering needs some clarification.

All hammer felt needs some kind of reinforcement because otherwise the wool would absorb and release moisture making voicing a daily requirement. This reinforcement is often restricted to the low shoulders, leaving the higher shoulders and crown untouched or very lightly touched. The formula for this reinforcement is a highly guarded secret of the hammer makers. Piano makers have been known to complain about the hammer makers consistency with this application but few doubt that it is necessary, as long as the felt at the crown responds to voicing needles applied to the shoulders, implying movement of the felt layers. You cannot get this response if the felt layers are glued together.

Building tone by filling a hammer with lacquer is a quite different technique and one that is, from my experience, almost completely limited to US makers.

OK, hopefully this is my final final point on this matter. When I say "the NY model sounds better", OBVIOUSLY I am saying "the NY model sounds better TO ME". I am NOT saying that other people are not entitled to believe otherwise! The first post on this thread (mine) was made out of sheer surprise that Fine ranked NY Steinway below Hamburg, because to me the NY model sounds better.

And it was nice to learn the facts regarding the competitors choices. Seems like a fair balance betwee NY and Hamburg, which is what I would expect.

OK, now let's all play nice.

Horowitizen (Peter), thanks for doing the work to correct my wrong statement about the Van Cliburn competition. It is great that you are an insider who really knows the competition. I listened to a lot of it but sure was not in a place to come up with statistics. (I quoted a person who relayed insider gossip, which was wrong.)

I too prefer facts and not the great BS which pianist and piano salespersons create. My lame attempt was just that of giving information to Arnie who has an opinion of Hamburg Steinways entirely from CDs.

In truth, I'm not a pianist, my wife is. It is much easier for me to work in the world of analysis rather than the world of artistic comparison. Of course music is something that the non-musician can enjoy and have a good opinions about. Plus the piano is a machine and the analysis of how it works and it how it produces its many sounds invites the mechinical analysis which I am good at.

Again, Peter thanks for your careful correction with facts. I was wrong with the facts but I was writing to intoduce a discussion and get the historicial facts from those who know more than me.

You must be confusing me with Peter Sumner...

It was no problem. In fact, it was a lot of fun because I went back to listen to my favorite performers again.

Cheers!

So you missed Haochen's Nov. 2 free concert in Flushing?

It's a Carnegie Hall "neighborhood" concert. He substituted for Yundi.

If I remember correctly, some contestants switched piano because they ran into "slippery key" situation.

Hey Gary...
Peter here.....
Horowitzian is the other guy...

Thank you so much for your last posting...very refreshing...I am happy that Horowitzian got stuck into those statistics.
I'm sure you noted the kind of comments that came piling in after your first post....it is interesting how that can happen...maybe some folks have an agenda and they like to pick the scab off now and then.
If I can be of any assistance, please let me know.

I think those with the biggest agenda and bias would naturally be some NY Steinway owners, NY Steinway dealers and techs who deal mainly with NY Steinways.

That depends on what the agenda is.

Steven

pianoloverus,

There's lots of mythology that gets tossed around here about Steinway and accepted by folks as gospel truth if it puts S&S in a bad light. Often the purveyors are those who have a vested interest in promoting other brands. In other cases, as perhaps in this one, it just may be the product of accumulated misinformation. Putting a corrective to that with actual data as Horowitzian did seems to be the antidote to bias. I happen to be biased toward factual information.... with an agenda for accuracy.... must work on that.

Sophia

I don't have the slightest problem with H correcting the original data (although his corrections seemed to have been based on the prelims only). I told the OP that I would have said the same reaction to his post if he had claimed that Hamburg Steinways were simply better than NY Steinways.

I do think PW owners of Steinway and other pianos are often far too defensive in protecting their choice of piano and one sided in their evaluations. If one eliminated the comments about brand X from some dealers of brand X and some owners of brand X, I think one would get a truer picture.

Gosh, I think all of the high-end pianos are great. I just wish I had the money (and room) for a Bleuthner, Hamburg S&S, Bosendorfer, etc.

That would make me very happy. I'd invite you all to try them and give me your OPINIONS! I'll bet if played without knowing which was which, each would be preferred by some.

While I have a Steinway, I'm certainly not a snob about it (so far my favorite piano that I've played is a 1936 M&H) There are many great choices, few really bad ones.

The bizarre thing about this thread is that we are comparing Steinways to Steinways. How can there be a 'hidden agenda' behind any of the posts here, when we are talking about the same company?