My shortlisted candidates currently include the Sauter Delta and potentially Estonia 190.

The local Sauter dealer does not have a techician familiar with the instrument and I would prefer to use my own tech who I know is trustworthy.

Estonia does not have a dealer in Australia. If I end up buying one directly from the factory, I will have to find a local techician for service.

The Sauter is quite new in the local market (introduced last year). There is only two or three Estonia in this country which were all bought directly from the factory as far as I know. I can assume the local technicians may not be familiar with these instruments.

Is there anything peculiar with the action of these two brands which would make them difficult to service by a competent technician?

Thanks.

Hello Jibbers,

In general there should not be any peculiarities in servicing either of the two brands. The Estonia has a genuine Renner action and so has - to my knowledge - also the Sauter, both of course with their own specifications determined by the respective piano designs.

Of course it never hurts when a tech is familiar with the brand. During posting here in a thread related to piano servcing I got following reply from a US Estonia dealer after I commented I prefer a deler/tech familiar with the brand:

[url=http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1289646/Re:%20Do%20you%20look%20forward%20to%20you.html#Post1289646][/url]

Should you decide for an Estonia I think you ought to be aware that when buying directly from the factory the piano will need some care after the long distance transport to Australia, whatever the prep at the factory might be. So a good independent tech will be crucial to you.

If you had a local dealer who carries the brand and who is known to spend the necessary time prepping the piano pre delivery, this could also save you some money and sometimes hassle.

Finally I would not be surprised that also in Australia [I is certainly the case where I live] the resell value of an Estonia would be quite low as there is no dealership and few have been sold in Australia [= virtually unknown brand by the large public].

But afterall you do not purchase a piano with the option in mind of reselling it anytime soon do you?

Good luck with your search.

schwammerl.

I just wanted to add that there is nothing to add.

schwammerl handled this quite nicely.

Bottom line = Buy what you love. You are considering two very fine pianos. I have my personal preference, but that's all it is, a preference.

Good luck and keep us posted, Jibbers.

Sauter and Estonia are some of the best factory prepped pianos arriving at dealer showrooms.

We have sold many of these right after arival with nobody even noticing or requesting additional work to be done.

Since thorough prepping is something we do standard on every piano before leaving, it can easily be done by any experienced and capable tech.

Like Mercedes or BMW, these are not difficult products to get going - or get going *right*....

Let us know your final choice!

Norbert

Norbert, it's either one or the other. How can people buy one without noticing lack of prep (right after arrival) and 'thorough prepping is something standard' before leaving (your store).

You don't mean to say that you saved the expense of getting the pianos properly prepped for several customers because they didn't notice?!?

Confusion sets in...

Sorry, I didn't say this.

I said :



We do prep our pianos in each and every case before delivery but the OP in Australia can get it done by someone after getting delivery, should such service not be available at dealer's showroom

Both Sauter and Estonia do arrive in such good condition that they have often "instant" appeal to buyers.

I am sure this is also true for certain other high quality pianos.

Norbert

No, it's carping and trap-baiting that set in for those who like that sort of thing.

Pianos like Sauter arrive in a condition that is sufficient to generate buying interest even without dealer prep. After all, they receive 'playing in' at the factory by human hands and also get some fine regulation.

Many dealers have commented on the immediate appeal of Estonia pianos right out of the box. One that I can recall on this forum is Keith Kerman, but a couple of Estonia dealers who are not members here have told me the same thing.... that the exquisite tone that is Estonia's biggest drawing card is already there on arrival, and that there might be a temptation to let it go at that since the pianos literally sell themselves.

Does that mean that Norbert would let it go? Does that mean he would scrimp on prepping either piano or any piano to save a few bucks? Does that mean that with money in hand he would forget about his own standards? Are you really suggesting that or are you just trying to make trouble?

How many pianos have you prepped, notsonewguy?

The only thing that I have ever found difficult about the Sauter is removing and replacing the fallboard and sometimes other case parts as they are manufactured with such precise tolerences.

Now this is a pretty good example of the sales pitch getting in the way. The OP was asking a question about any peculiarities of action designs of these pianos. It is a good question when one is concerned about a tech maintaining the piano to its potential action capabilities.

I was very interested in responses to this question. Schwammerl was helpful. I love a lot of your posts Norbert but it was frustrating to see this thread take that sales pitch turn again.

About as many as you have, I imagine. And how does that somehow strengthen your position?

My question was a valid one, but your response seems a bit emotional. Only you'll know if that's true.

Not emotional, but not stupid either.

_____________________________________
No more for now

Not as far as I know.

Well, THAT'S open for debate I'd say. Haha. I win. And now I step out of the sand-box to play with others...

This was the question and my answer was 'no'.

Since the question was dealing specifically with Sauter and Estonia, my answer was concerning these 2 makes.

I would have answered same if [most] other makes of tier 1 and 2 would have been named.



No such luck, Sir.

No 'sales pitch' made - none intended!

Simple answer to a simple question!

Norbert

Thank you for all the responses.

Glad to know that the general consensus seems to be a competent technician should be able to service a Sauter and an Estonia.

For the purpose of the question in my original post and question in this post, you can assume both the Estonia and Sauter receive no prep from local dealer after long distance travel - if that makes any difference.


I do not intend to resell in the forseeable future. I am hoping this next piano will stay with me for a very long time.



Couple more questions:

1) In general terms (not specific to an Estonia or Sauter), does a grand piano's condition vary much from its factory prepped status after long distance travel?

2) If I buy direct from factory, other than and logistics (freight, clearing customs, import taxes) and lack of local dealer prep/support, is there anything else I should consider in the whole piano purchase process? While Estonia is the only piano on my "direct from factory without local dealer" list, I am happy to hear non-Estonia specific considerations for future reference.

Thanks.

Jibbers,

As to answer your two last questions:

1) As a piano contains wood, leather, felt ...yes the factory settings may alter do to long distance transport for ANY brand. This is why the reputable dealers like the ones who participated here always do a thourough check when the piano arrives and have to do a minimal prep pre delivery. To what degree whill depend on the circumstances during the transport: by boat or by plane, additional road transport distance once arrived at the harbour/airport, care of handling by the carrier, change(s) of humidity conditions during the transport... All I know is that the Estonias are very well packed before leaving the factory for transport as to keep those influences minimal. Knowing these transport influences any serious manufacturer will take this into account when regulating the piano at the factory, i.e. settings may be chosen a bit on the safe side as to compensate for transport (mainly humidity change) fluctuations; e.g. if factory setting for let-off are 1.5 - 2.0 mm, the factory may chose 2.0 mm.

2) Cannot think of many. In this cas you know that unless you are paying a visit to the factory in Tallinn you are buying a piano site unseen. As no two pianos of the same model/brand sound excactly the same there will always some 'at random' factor being built in. However as dealers often do not carry more than one item of the same model/brand you then do not have the chance to make that comparison either.
Further it could be a good idea to pick a good official tech right form the start and if possible to stay with that one, at least during the warranty period as whenever a warranty issue should occur this would make the communication with the factory easier I think.

schwammerl.

I will be visiting the factory next month and very much looking forward to it, regardless of whether I end up getting an Estonia piano!

You're going to the factory? I can almost guarantee you'll get one then, and you should. I've heard the experience of hand picking your instrument from the factory is really an amazing one!

Estonias are very nice pianos, and once it gets set up and regulated in your home I'm sure you'll be quite happy with it. Proper preparation truly is the key to making any piano play at it's fullest potential, so find a good tech and spend the money.

Jibbers,

You apparently know how to build tension up in a story and keep secrets till the last moment!

Post us some pictures from the factory and from the piano you have chosen!

schwammerl.

I know we are talking about grands and not uprights. But there is something special in the Sauter RR upright action. There is an additional spring for supporting the jack return. It´s not so easy to regulate the whole action equably. The spring affects downweight. Factory spec is 50 gram but sometimes it will be 57 gram when the spring is not propperly regulated.

Gregor

Jibbers,

I second schwammerl, please take some pictures of the factory and the potential pianos you are thinking about, I am a happy estonia owner and would like to see the factory (at least vicariously)

I hope you find the right piano for you, regardless of brand. Good Luck!

Jibbers:

Your report about factory visit would be much appreciated here!

Especially if you should make a selection, this is the real 'hot stuff' to read for all of us...

best regards,

Norbert