Hey gang,

This is a follow-up to a previous thread in which I mention a slight case of tendonitis that's followed upon several months of daily trill practice.

It's better now, but before I jump back in, I'd like to get a better idea of proper technique if possible.

The difficulty I was having in the first place was due to tension in my hand obvious enough to feel. I'm gradually learning to relax, and the results have been gratifying. I'm trilling far better now.

But I'm worried aoout my technique. Should I be taking some of the load off my hand and fingers with any kind of wrist or forearm rotation?

I watched KBK's video with interest, and he appears to be confining the movement mostly to his fingers.

Would love to hear from any and all.

Many advance thanks,
CG

I would think that wrist rotation could be best effected with the thumb and one of the other fingers, and more so for long trills rather than short ones. I can't imagine wrist rotation being as effective with 2/3 for example, but might increase, effectively but only slightly, if one trills with 2/5 - a somewhat rare occurrence, I would think.

For me, trilling is done almost entirely with loose fingers; I haven't found that adding extra movement from the wrist helps me at all.

In a masterclass Anton Kuerti recommends trilling with 1/3 (if the musical context permits that fingering), and when he does so his wrist drops below the keyboard. He says he gets the best, most even trill, that way.

Ask Fats Domino :

"I found my trill
On Blueberry Hill...."

Regards,

I heard him say the exact same thing in a NYC master class.

There is a wonderful exercise in Peter Feuchtwanger's book of daily "healing exercises" http://www.peter-feuchtwanger.de/english-version/video-and-book/index.html.

For my two cents: whenever a body part is (held) completely stationary, excess tension is involved. Trilling with minimal tension involves two elliptical rotational movements occurring simultaneously. The 1st is around an axis parallel to the direction of the forearm - clockwise with the right hand, counter-clockwise with the left. The 2nd is around an axis extending vertically up from the keyboard through the center of the hand, also clockwise with the right, counter-clockwise with the left. Much easier to see than explain if you watch Mr. Feuchtwanger's demonstration in his video.

Good luck with your trills.

Thanks folks,

Bruce, I do use a bit of wrist with the 1/3, but other than that I find extra motion unhelpful. That said, the more I hang around here the more I come to believe there's usually more than one way to skin the proverbial feline.

Part of my confusion stems from the fact that I used to use a flat fingered approach. I just found it easier to relax in the beginning that way, but now I'm flexing my fingers in a more conventional way. Perhaps that's added a new stressor to the mix that I wasn't fully conditioned for.

I think I just went at it too hard and too long, not a healthy mix for a guy my age who's not had the benefit of years of play and the salutary effect that must have on building up hand and finger strength. And I'm finding it so enjoyable to drill these things in a way I never could before, that I over did it.

I'm going to lay back for a while,to make sure I'm fully healed.

Thanks again.

This makes sense to me. Even if one doesn't find utility in conscious movement of the wrist and forearm, I think the most important thing is that the wrist remain naturally flexible and supple so that such movement isn't restrained.

Steven

Much 'conventional' flexing is just poor technique. Proper flexing (curled rather than naturally curved) is an advanced technique. You will encounter all sorts of stresses if you try it - you need to know (learn from a teacher) how to accommodate those stresses.

Relaxation + Rotation

Most trilling problems come from lack of finger strength and you place an additional burden on the tendons, wrists, etc to compensate. The only exception I can think of would be a stretch leading to a trill, in that instance poor hand positioning could cause an injury in a particularly adventurous passage. The inner/outer part trills up to within octaves in Beethoven's Opus 106 (Hammerklavier) first movement is an example of a [shake] trill that might induce tension with poor hand positioning, particularly with the dual hands trills before the finale.

To achieve dexterity and finger strength you need to follow a programme of technical exercises for a few years, or maybe a few more years if you do not practice well. Denial is your worst enemy. If your fingers are not up to it, be honest, then patient with yourself. Eventually they will get there!