I'm looking for a medium grand for my two children, and we've found a new Estonia for a reasonable price that all of us like. We asked our piano teacher to try the piano and she is concerned that the action is a little loose, and that the sound is too open for a new piano. She comments that it feels as if it were a two year old piano. Have any of you run into this? Is it typical of Estonias or is there a problem with the dealer prep?

Thanks in advance.

Loose meaning light?

Open meaning??

Would you use those words to describe the piano?

In general teachers have no special qualifications for this task. They'll tend to recommend pianos which they already know and sometimes get commissions from dealers for their recommendations.

It's always tone, touch, and appearance - to your ears, your fingers, and your eyes. pianoloverus has it right: How would you characterize this piano?

Choosing a piano is ultimately an emotional decision and we often react differently on different days, so multiple auditions are preferred. The right piano for you is the one which attracts you more and more and whose imperfections you can live with.

I understand that your teacher is concerned that it might be a piano rented before or a piano used in fair stands, am i correct?

Did you asked the dealer whether it was used before for such purposes?

Technically, Estonias are first rate, high performing, well built instruments. Teachers are professional people with opinions and their own experiences.

If your teacher has a depth of experience with several Estonias of the same size her opinion might have some weight. Likely this is not the case. The Estonia is a wonderful piano.

I'm interested to hear about this. My new Estonia has very stiff action, and it sounds like this teacher thinks this lightens up with age. I've had mine about nine (wonderful) months. If I want the action a little lighter, should I wait or should I have my tech change it?

Nancy

tc, it wasn't 100% clear (to me, anyway) that you're talking about buying a new piano from an authorized dealer. It may pay you to discuss your teacher's opinion with the dealer and ask that any concerns regarding regulation or voicing be addressed, to your satisfaction, before you buy. Some dealers do little or no prep unless a customer asks, or complains. It's not a bad idea to write down the serial number of the piano you're auditioning, so you're sure the same instrument is delivered to you.

If you're buying from a private seller, it will pay to have the piano inspected by a qualified tech for condition, before you close the deal... or even, a new piano at the dealer's premises, if you have questions about it.

There was a pretty long thread recently on the Piano Teachers' forum, about the ethics of teachers' "steering" customers to a certain dealer or make, and accepting a commission for it secretly. Most, but not all, thought it was wrong unless the financial relationship was disclosed. Others thought that if the teacher's opinion was worth having and their time was used, it should be compensated.

That does not make them technicians; it is a different sort of opinion. The opinion you were offered is puzzling. To me, a loose action would be one that has wobbly keys (very bad, if true) or is worn out--- it doesn't make sense for a new piano of a good-quality make. "Too open" a sound is also a head-scratcher. What would be the opposite--- too closed-up? Tubby? Wimpy, unbalanced, dead strings, bad tuning or voicing, noises you don't want?

This is not specific enough to make a call--- but you've already made it for yourself:

"...we've found a new Estonia for a reasonable price that all of us like..."

There you go.

You might ask your tech to see if the keys need to be eased. Ask him to also check for any other excessive friction. Have him check the basic regulation as well and make recommendations. This should help and you shouldn't have to wait.

tc-eliot,

A few things stroke me and make me wonder when you put these in combination:

...and

As you are saying a new piano this lets me suppose you saw it at a dealer's showroom? Reasonable (?fairly good) price prospositions from dealers in this economic times are not unusual especially not if the piano would be already sitting some time on his showroom floor.

In fact from what I read the teacher did not say it was not a good piano, she/he merely felt surpised the action was a little loose and the piano was sounding quite open for a new piano.

It is normal and in fact a good thing that a piano sound opens up over time when being played. It is normal also the action loosens up a bit when being played for a while.

First thing I would do is to find out the serial number and have this forum or the factory (or even the dealer) give you the manufacturing date. Perhaps the piano is indeed already sitting on the showroom floor for 1 or 2 years, has been played regularly by visiors of the showroom, the piano has been tuned quite often and has got some additional voicing so it sound open already.

In that case this would not be a bad deal at all as you would buy a grand that has matured already a bit. If additionally the price is excellent and the dealer trustworthy it could even be a bargain?

schwammerl.

Thank you all for your quick response. The piano we're looking at is an Estonia L190-6828, sold through a reputable dealer. It is brand new, built in 2008, and supposedly only on the showroom floor for several weeks. I'm not a good pianist, so it's hard for me to evaluate action. I think that our teacher feels that the action is a little looser than expected for a brand new piano, and is worried that if it loosens much more with normal wear that it will become sloppy. The "open" sound might be a function of the acoustics of the very small showroom. The piano has a beautiful warm tone, but it is very loud.

We've been trying many other brands. My daughter loves the feel of the Seiler 6'1" model, but we don't like the sound as much as the Estonia. Another piano that we like is the Schimmel 213 NWS, although that is bigger and more expensive. Are there any comments on these three?

Well, the Schimmel is in another league but, as you say, it's a lot more money.

As an Estonia owner I'll simply say that I had my tech ease the bushings on my piano to loosen up the action a bit. You might ask the dealer if as part of their prep they've eased the bushings on this Estonia. Having played some newer L190s than my own I noticed that some of them seemed to have a lighter and quicker action than my own instrument and I liked that. Actually I really liked it. I played some Schimmels when I was shopping they were nice, but I liked the Estonia better, but they weren't NWS models. I've played a Seiler too, also very nice. Frankly, you're looking at 3 very fine instruments. Pick the one you like best. Don't worry about what the teacher says unless she's writing the check.

It could be interesting to know what kind of piano (+ it's age) the teacher ownes - or which one the teacher normally plays when she/he ownes more than one - as this would show what reference is being used when judging upon a piano.

Still it is not really clear to me what is meant by a LOOSE action. Does it simply mean 'a bit light' or does it mean the leys show some lateral movement when operated? In this altter case it could mean the dealer or his tech eased the key bushing a bit too much.

Normally Schimmels are considered of having an excellent but rather light action.

schwammerl.

i am a biased, extremely happy, delighted and satisfied Estonia owner. I play my piano about 10 hours a week quite vigorously. it's built like a tank and sounds like a dream.

They ARE excellent professional pianos, particularly for their price. Much has been written about Estonias on this forum. If you would like to read more you could use the SEARCH function on the right side of the upper toolbar.

If I were a brand spankin' new piano, I might take that as a compliment!

btw, i just bought a 5 year old Estonia 190, it's been great. The action is anything but loose.

Have fun finding a new piano!

Thanks, everyone, for your help.

Steve, you've provided the terminology that I need to talk to the dealer.

Schwammerl, the more I think about it, the more I think that the teacher meant that the action is light which worries her because it tends to get even lighter with use.

To be fair to our piano instructor, I trust her integrity completely. This is the first Estonia that she's heard or played, and she commented that it had beautiful sound and pretty good touch. She just expressed her concerns, and I wanted a sense of whether these were legitimate.

The consensus seems to be that the Estonia is a wonderful piano that should last for many years, and that I shouldn't worry about the light touch or open sound.

tc-eliot

I would recommend comparing this to other Estonias. Maybe your teacher is correct and this particular piano isn't right. If other Estonia's play just like this one, then you could be fairly confident that your getting a great piano. Dig into this problem further, and make sure you are satisfied before buying a piano.

I am a little surprised with a consensus here that says to buy a piano you have concerns about the sound and touch. This may end up being a great piano, but take your time. There are other pianos, including Estonia's to compare this one to.

Estonias are great pianos. I would be a bit cautious about taking the advice of a piano teacher if you really love the piano--it is your taste that matters in this purchase, not the teacher's. If you are at all worried about it, you might want to ask a piano-playing friend (unconnected with the teacher) to come in and try it out while you listen.

Piano teachers, wonderful as they may be, will come and go, but the piano will be with you forever!

Was she concerned that she couldn't wiggle her fingers to and fro on the keys and get vibrato out of the piano, too?

Now that is funny, sad, tragic, funny, real-life, ashame, funny!

How old is the "new" Estonia? Perhaps the teacher hears openess in comparison to others played and ability of the teacher. But the family appears to enjoy and feel comfortable about it.

Of strong importance is how it will sound in your home. Pianos are different at home than in the showroom. My Estonia is one step away from being a perfect instrument, but after several pianos it was the one that had the right "feeling".

Technically they are well-engineered and well-built. Go with your gut and go with the sound in produces on each and every key.

Estonia is the Lexus of Pianos, pick your color and size and drive away.

for what it's worth my Estonia's action is everything but light.

I pretty much agree with Ianopi. I have had my Estonia 190 for three years (bought new). The action feels just about perfect. The sound is too bright for my taste, or maybe it's just that it is in a room that is too small for the size of the piano. I have had a tech voice it a few times, but it's still not quite what I want. However, it's a "deep" bright -- a lot of color in it. Overall it has been an excellent piano for me. I have a feeling that if it were in a bigger room, it would sound a lot better.

PianoAgain, pianos can be voiced, rooms can be voiced. Size does not have to be an insurmountable problem. You might want to start a thread, "Voicing a room" or some such. If you do that, it'd be a good idea to include info about "liveliness" - floor and or wall coverings, furniture - in addition to size.

You may find that a couple of panels of acoustic foam + a bass trap or two will solve the problem.

I do have some foam panels (purchased from a company that makes them specifically for practice rooms), but they are still just leaning against the walls because we weren't sure where to hang them. There's also other stuff in there (carpet, a lot of books, cork flooring), which probably helps. One place I contacted said I should put something on the ceiling, but I really don't want to mess up the beautiful swirled plaster finish from 1950 that's probably irreplacable.

Is the lid closed with the hinge folded back or do you play with the lid up on short or long stick?

I play with the lid closed and hinge folded back. I also have a couple of quilts on top. For about six months, I played with it completely closed because I was having some ear problems, but recently opened it up again because it was too muffled that way.

How big is your room? Does the room open up onto other rooms/halls?

tc eliot--

I'm not too surprised that so many Estonia owners and dealers have rushed in to tell you how great the pianos are. Thats not to say they aren't generally very good pianos. But I write only to say, along with a few others, that you should take the time to have peace of mind. And tell the dealer about the action concerns. I have played 2 smaller Estonias that I thought needed some action regulation.

With some people it isn't always tone, touch, appearance. I've heard a number of pianos whose tone I could buy and live with. But I'm very picky about the feel of the action. Maybe thats the way the teacher feels. Like others I have no idea what "too open" means, but it sounds like you do not have any problem with the sound.

Good luck.