Since I started my latent musical journey in my early fifties, I have run into many roadblocks along the way. If taking weekly piano lessons from a real teacher was practical for me right now, believe me I'd do it. My latest problem seems to be my inability to relax, which results in stiffness. When I watch some accompilshed players, some seem to play so effortlessly and others look like they are "over emphasizing" relaxed hands almost in an animated way. Is there a way to achieve this type of relaxation? Is it a frame of mind? Can it be learned at a later age?

Yes it can be learned latter in life. I find it helps to mentally prepare myself by conciously relaxing my shoulders and arms before I begin to play.

Check out Barbara Lister-Sink's videos on YouTube. Her DVD "Freeing the Caged Bird" is excellent; it taught me how to relax when I play.

Early on my teacher told me that trying to play pieces that are too difficult would result in developing habits that lead to tension. So I would say one thing you could do is only play pieces that allow you to remain in a relaxed state. It will feel like you're playing below your ability, but in the end will have a positive result.

There are good books on technique that help learn to play relaxed. One that covers all aspects is Gyorgy Sandor's "On Piano Playing". Another is by Abby Whiteside "Abby Whiteside on Piano Playing: Indispensables of Piano Playing - Mastering the Chopin Estudes and Other Essays". Her book focuses on developing the use of the shoulder, arm and whole body to avoid being dependent on fingers, which are weak by comparison.

Yes it can be learned later in life but it can take years. Hang your arms at your side. Cup one hand in the other as if it isn't yours (though it's better to get someone else to do it). Is the cupped hand still relaxed? Move over to the piano and place that hand on the keyboard. Is it still relaxed?

I would like to thank all of you for your helpful suggestions. The DVD and books mentioned all look very interesting and I will certainly check them out. Thanks again...Patrick

Greets Patrick:

I might add if I may a couple of thoughts here.
An idea that doesn't cost anything but effort is to work
on the mindset of "later age".

No matter how young one might be, it's never too late
to learn if you have an open mind and are willing to accept
what's being offered in the wonderful world of music knowledge.
Also, if you work on relaxing the whole body and mind before beginning it will help your arms and hands relax.
I tell myself those folks who make it look easy are actually having fun and love what they're doing.
Have fun. It's not a contest. The rest follows.

Hope that helps.

Cheers

Their belly tickles.

Thank you Liallegro. Perhaps wisdom always starts with slowing down whatever we are attempting to percieve. Almost as if, since we are all born with a brain which contains the knowledge of everything, we have to work at reminding ourselves of what we already know. Except of course who is gonna win the next Stanley Cup. LOL...Patrick

I couldn't resist buying this DVD on amazon. I am awaiting its arrival. Although I am mainly concerned with how to relax at the piano, I can't imagine how one can injure themself physically by not doing so. Very interesting. It seems I'm injuring myself mentally by not doing so. Any it looks like it has a lot of potential and I will certainly share when I get it...Patrick

Tennis elbow Also some injuries in the palm of your hand from big stretches, or "yips" from tension from playing too fast for conditions

I don't think you can, say, die from your injuries, but my landlord can no longer play piano because of injuries to the palm of his hands. So it can be serious.

Cathy

Well said Cathy! Also one's playing is not musical if there's any tension. So yes, there is mental injury as well.

This is one of my biggest challenge areas as well, and I have 2 60 minute lessons a week from a great teacher. She frequently reminds me to relax my shoulders, arms and hands. Just recently after 3 years, I'm finally able to do it, but not all the time. It really does make a difference in my playing. Especially on hard passages, where it's natural to tense up. When I consciously relax, they turn out much better. Like everything else, I guess it's just a matter of practice practice practice...

I've been reading all the sections on relaxation and technique from Fundamentals of Piano Practice (available at www.pianopractice.org), and am really looking forward to working through everything in this book when I get my piano in a couple of months.

In my teenage years just before I gave up piano, I hit a technique wall due to stiffness in fast passages. The piece that completely broke me was Liszt's Funerailles (the fast LH octaves at the end) - after only a few notes my arm would tense and my hand would cramp up.

At the time I thought it was a physical limit that could never be overcome... but now I know better and am looking forward to tackling it again

This thing about relaxation when
playing has become a fetish in
piano, and indeed there is a kind
of cult of relaxation, where
the primary concern is relaxation
when playing, to the exclusion
of everything else, even fundamental
things like hitting the right
notes. The reasoning behind
this is apparently that great
concert pianists seem to play
effortlessly, totally "relaxed,"
and so the logical conclusion
must be that if one simply
relaxes while playing, he'll soon be
in Carnegie Hall. Of course this
overlooks the countless hours
of finger-numbing practice
that a concert pianist has put
in so that he can develop
the necessary strength that
enables him to appear to play
effortlessly and relaxed. That
is, this is faulty reasoning
of the worst kind.

What you need to do is hit the
right notes in the right time at
speed, and to do that takes work, hard
work that will develop the necessary
strength so that you can hit
the notes. You can't do that by
simply relaxing and expecting
to be able to play without doing
the necessary hard work.

What's alarming is that various
charlatans have taken advantage
of this obsession with
relaxation and have used it to
promote systems of piano playing
that stress relaxation above all
else. And these have great appeal,
since the word relaxation implies
something effortless, requiring
no work. And these systems can
appear to work, at least initially.
A student will play a piece he
knows for the new relaxation teacher,
and then the teacher will have
him play it more relaxed. He'll
be able to do this because he's
already done all the hard work to
learn the piece. And this "new"
relaxed way of playing will seem to
work wonders. And then the teacher
will have him learn new pieces
in this relaxed manner, carefully
chosen pieces where everything
falls under the hand easily
and can be played by anyone.
And thus the student can come
to believe that this relaxation
way is helping him, when it is
really all smoke and mirrors
and worthless.

You are funny...and you make me laugh.

The only thing I often wonder about your posts is the amazing software that you must paste from that gives it that--I just wrote a pure B.S. poem look to it.

Hypnotic.

This business of relaxed playing can be confusing. First of all your muscles can only do one thing, contract to cause movement. Generally the relaxation phase is also accompanied by contration of the opposing muscle group for movement. You do need some tension for joint stabilization. However, for psychological reasons we do tend to overcontract both sets of muscles simultaneously, leading to tension and rigidity.

Some tips:

1) Try to release tension BETWEEN notes. Often a tense hand and arm is necessary for a difficult big chord for example, but after it is struck you have to release the tension.
2) Use the pedal to hold notes where possible
3) Practice playing with minimum effort. Work on a short segment of music and do repetitions with less and less effort. You may be suprised at how little effort is often required

The misconception about relaxed playing is that the hands, arms, etc. are completely relaxed. The goal is not total relaxation, but relaxation in the muscles that are not needed at the moment, and just enough tension in the muscles and joints that are needed at that moment.

It's like stepping off a stool: certain muscles have to tense enough to keep you upright, and once that is achieved some of these muscles will relax. But you don't have to consciously press your feet against the ground to keep yourself there; gravity does that, and the muscles still needed to keep you upright will do so without undue strain.

The "basic stroke" of playing a piano key is essentially the same thing. Both tension and relaxation are involved, and are applied where needed, and in the amount needed. It may help to think of it as "unforced control."

Speaking for myself, I welcome Gyro's posts. Its amazing how one can get so much out in 1 or 2 breaths. Perhaps Gyro should .............relax.

BTW...Thank you Stanza, moscheles001 and everyone else, including Gyro for your valuable suggestions.

Ok, I watched Barbara Lister-Sink's "Freeing the Caged Bird" dvd (my god, she can play) a few times. Its important stuff. Of course its not for everyone, but I found it to be very useful to me as an adult beginner. It seems the ability to slow down to a halt is a problem for everyone in any situation or capacity. I remember back in the 70's (oh no), I went to mismatched concert with John McLaughlin and the Mahavishnu Orchestra opening up for the J Geils Band (when they were young and kick-ass and didn't know what sell-out was yet)and John asked for a minute of silence before his band would play. The rowdy drunken audience yelled for the J Geils band. John stould his ground until the crowd shut up ( for a minute of course). He put on a memorable show to everyone and so did J Geils afterward. My point is, the ability to relax the whole body and mind is not a given, it needs a conscious effort at all times...pat

Its important to relax your arms, wrist, hands and fingers.

BUT do not confuse that with relaxing your mind and attention. Place the focus on the music score and not on your hands, i find that this works well. Also, playing at a slower tempo also builds hand relaxation.

And a very good point it is.

The systems of piano playing that stress relaxation above all else are meant for people who injuried themselves for playing with excessive tension or suffer with injuried tendons. They're not advertized as general systems to become good pianists for everyone.