In my experience on this forum, Kreisler's presence as a moderator is all but invisible; the very few times he intervenes publicly has always seemed to me quite justified.

It must be a thankless* task, and I'm glad he is doing it as well as he does!

*So, Thank you!

Regards,

I'm 56, and still improving.

But I started in my 50's, so I'm still getting beginner gains. And I've been a musician all my life (brass and voice) so I wasn't starting from scratch.

Memory is a problem. Other than that, I'm not seeing a lot of age handicap yet. We'll see how far I get. I have no desire to play the extremely difficult Rach type stuff; I want to play simpler stuff fluently and expressively, and i expect to get there in the next couple of years.

And if not, well, there was nothing worth watching on tv anyway.

Kreisler's cool, and his contributions here are always of value. Sometimes he can illuminate aspects of piano playing and repertoire that I never thought of. Good on him.

Politically, I suspect we're probably miles and miles apart, but this is after all a piano forum, so no concern there.

Yet funnily, I didn't take the 'outrageous' post earlier in the thread with much more than a grain of salt. Difficult for me to see what the fuss was about, but perhaps I wasn't reading much into it. Obviously others were, I guess I just missed out on that one.

Oh what a teacup these moderators navigate!

On the original topic, I think about this often because I want to improve a lot, and worry that I'll be limited, due to age.

In general we tend to overestimate our mental decline. When we forget a name we think "Oh, I'm getting old!" But when we were younger we forgot names, too. We just didn't think about it as much.

As you can see in the blog in my signature, I've plugged away at sight-reading for 1-2 hours per day for almost two years now, and still have a long way to go. You might think this slow progress is due to my age (56). But I worked on sight-reading when I was 35, and had just as much trouble. I gave up, even.

I recently memorized the Bach 2-part invention (#8 in F), which I'd memorized as a teenager (and forgotten, of course). I'd love to know how long it took me back then, but I bet it didn't take me much longer at this age.

It's hard to know how much I can improve, but it really doesn't matter, because I'm going to keep trying anyway.

>>>Is it possible to improve beyond 60 years' age?

what is age? just numbers, men is supposed to live around 150 years so man you 're still in your teens Where there is a will a way will be found.

I just retired on August 1st and at 65. I have been looking forward to this new beginning/adventure with learning piano in my retired years. I am excited about the possibility of a year from now, 2 years from now, etc, to look back at what I have accompished and all that lays in the time to come. Why not? My health and attitude is pretty durn good - Dijango played with a couple fingers and Willy is still rolling at 75. I am expecting with a lot of piano enjoyment my fingers will stay flexable longer and my mind will remain sharper many more years than if I did nothing in comparison. It is wonderful to be in this time of my life and, having a very supportive spouse adds to the pleasure, not to mention the terrific community here in the Piano Forum - knowledge and fellowship. Thanks for the space. Richard

Congratulations on your retirement Richard! I'm terribly jealous. If I could afford it, I'd retire tomorrow and practice all day long. I was off from work yesterday and did just that. By the end of the day I felt utterly sated, happy and calm.

Thanks Deborah, It's an exciting time to be alive for me. My Honey has 2 years to go to join me but she is very supportive as I mentioned.
Richard

I am going to be (groan) 73 in 2 months. I became interested in the Amateur Competitions that have been springing up all over. I now have a little more than an hour memorized and can draw on as I add new things. I really need a goal and a competition is just the ticket for me. I have learned SO much in the last 3 years. Currently have a video on the Cliburn Youtube Amateur Competition. Equitater, my moniker.

Hey! Your Chopin Op. 9 No. 3 was better than some professional performances, in my opinion. Nice work!

It's worth understanding that as neurons die (as we get older) neighbour neurons (who already have their own muscle fibers) have to take on their muscle fibers - a 'He Ain't Heavy' kinda thing. The overloading is what makes Motor-Neuron disease eventually debilitating.

Good inspiration Musica71, thanks for an upbeat senior note.
Richard

musica 71, very nice! Your performance is one of the better ones I've seen in that group.

Hi guys, I'm new here and I'm kind of feeling overwhelmed at having to read 73 posts on this thread, so I'll just say what my own experience is.

I'm 62, and I can honestly say that I'm getting more out of the piano than I ever have before. I feel like I've finally learned how to practice, using a method that works for me.

It also helps me enormously that I don't have a teacher. I can do exactly the pieces I want, and I can spend as much or as little time as I want on each piece. Of course I do make use of all the advice my teachers have given me over the years.

Incidentally, I think the thing that's caused the most improvement for me is that I sang with an a cappella Renaissance choir for about ten years. Even though I didn't play the piano much during that period, it really sharpened my awareness of phrasing and musicality in general. I now at least know how to make the individual voices in a piece "sing", and how to listen to what I'm playing. This is a great help especially in Bach.

I am somewhat surprised at the implication that having a teacher means you can't play what you want to play. Surely that varies from teacher to teacher and the ideal situation would be to find a good teacher who does let you play what you want to play.

I find that a good teacher at this stage of my life works more as a coach and collaborator rather than a technical disciplinarian or a repertoire dictator. I and my teacher spend lesson times discussing interpretive directions and alternatives to my initial play-throughs, but, with her experience, she listens better than I and hears what I sometimes do not. While I feel that a lifetime of listening to music and a certain "musical sense" would allow me to work well independently, I also find my teacher's suggestions and advice invaluable, they save me time and effort and the collaborative spirit of my lessons is something that I would sorely miss were I not studying with her.

Regards,

THERE!!!! -- found you.
Hi, equitater -- I just joined and saw people talking about you, so I knew I'd find you pretty soon.

I can just say that I HOPE it's possible to improve beyond 60, because I'm the same age as you.

The answer, by the way, is absolutely yes. There might be some aspects that become harder, like memorization and maybe (depending on a lot of things) some fingerwork. But you can keep improving on most aspects almost as long as you keep living.
P.S. I've been improving all the way up to 59, and I don't intend to stop.

I am sixty-two and I consider my playing has improved out of sight over the last year or two. I have to concede, however, that this may be simply due to my playing more because I no longer work every day. What I do find interesting is the mental aspect - how players' minds change with age. Some, perhaps most, confirm the musical loves of earlier years and restrict their remaining time to a progressively intense and specialised study of them. A few others, like me, seem to go completely berserk and extend their musical landscape and language in all directions. There is no right or wrong about it but it is just something I have noticed in people beyond middle-age. The narrowing group is much larger than the broadening one.

I'm 63. In the last 12 months I've greatly improved sight reading, rhythm, ear training, and physical skills (crossover, reach, etc.)

So far, I'm still on a roll. Someday I'll peak and decline, but I think it will be at least 10-20 years from now. Perhaps later I'll shop for a heavenly grand piano!

Hop

Good to hear that other pianists around my age consider continued improvement to be possible. It is a bit difficult to be objective, but I believe that I also have improved during the last 10 years.

In fact I find it easier to memorise music today than 10 or 20 years ago, and this is even true for 20th century music where tonality is often hard to make out.

Overcoming technical difficulties is an increasing obstacle, though. I think I need to practice more now than earlier to master difficult sequences.

I don't have a teacher. Living in a rural region I have to travel quite some distance to find one. But maybe it is worth it.

You say: "Overcoming technical
difficulties is an increasing
obstacle," as though this is
something new that has only
appeared as you've grown older.
But this is not a new thing at all.
Technical difficulties--specifically,
being able to hit the right notes
in the right time at tempo--
in fact, are always the number
one problem in playing, from the
earliest stages to the most
advanced. What keeps you from
sitting down and playing, say,
the first or third movement of
either Chopin concerto? Tone
production is not the problem;
you can produce great tone if
you limit yourself to just a few
notes at a time. Nor is artistry;
everyone knows what he'd like
to sound like.

The reason you can't play difficult
pieces like this is that you
can't hit all the notes at tempo,
that is, the technical difficulties
are too great. And the reason
that the technical difficulties
are too great is that you do
not have enough strength to hit
all the notes at tempo. And
the way you develop such strength
is by practice, hard, repetitive
practice, in order to "master
difficult sequences." But this
is not something new that you have
to do "more now than earlier." This
is always the number one problem
in playing, and always has been,
and always will be.

My main objection to practice a piano concerto is the fact that want to prioritise music for public performance. Not on big scale, but local, small town scenes. Most frequently I participate in concerts together with other musicians, most frequently a choir, and I often serve as an accompagnist. During such events I also often play a solo, most often a piece of 3 - 7 minutes. I have to be able to learn new music to play along with the other musicians (sometimes even venturing into non-classical or cross-over styles).

My dream would be to perform chamber music by e.g. Schubert, Mendelsohn or Brahms together with a small group of string musicians. The closest I have got so far is performing song cycles of Schubert with a vocal soloist.

I am young, and have not yet experienced this, but I am sure you can still improve beyond 60 years' age. The memory might get worse over time, but with good memorsation techinques it won't be a big problem, and if you're able to learn sight reading it will barely be a problem at all. Expecially not when improvising.

Also, my piano teacher hataught a 60 years old woman how to play blues.

Good luck!

Even if were true that one can't improve after a certain age, why can't one just enjoy playing the piano at whatever level you're at?

I don't think I ever think about improving(not the same as saying I wouldn't like to). I have enough great music at my present level to last 100 years.

My sensitivity to phrasing, the mood of the piece, ability to play without rushing have all improved with time and age (yes, I'm 60).

Memory suffered when I developed apnea. Although I don't fit the typical apnea profile, I got moderate apnea and my blood oxygen dropped low enough at night that my brain suffered deprivation. It's not uncommon at our age.

Although I'm in treatment (cpap), the ability to memorize is the last thing to return. I don't care if I can't memorize Chopin or Tchereprin any longer. I'm not on the performance stage like in youth, and that's fine too. At this age most of us are support/accompanists for soloists, or behind the scenes accompanists who can read from music.