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I currently have a boy who is around 10 years old in Hal Leonard method Book 2, he is currently in the middle. So he has not yet officially gotten to flats (just did sharps) and has not done 8th notes (which are in Book 3). However, we have been working on scales and so he does know what flats are already, and he has played some pieces in supplemental materials with 8th notes.

He seems to be doing well, but I suspect this is too easy for him. Not that easy is a bad thing, but I do wonder how he'd do with more of a challenge, something that progresses a bit faster. He is not really prepared for the Celebration Series, even their introductory level, but I would like to get him in there eventually.

Any suggestions on what I could switch to that would help? I know I could simply skip ahead on books and assign him pieces, but I'd hate to skip over something important.

I shudder when I hear
words like: accelerated, fast
sections, gifted programs,
advanced placement, college
prep, prodigy, genius, etc.
There is no better way to burn
a student out than to put him
into an accelerated section, or
gifted program, etc.
The ordinary sections are
difficult enough without
putting the label of gifted
on a child and then forcing
him into a program where he's
expected to constantly shine.

This student needs to stay
right where he is at now.

Gyro - For some students you may be right. But some of us, just sayin', needed a challenge in order to not be bored, to be motivated, and to be delighted with and rewarded by our results.

And Morodiene didn't use any of the adjectives you used. She said "eager" - an attribute that seems positively positive to me

I do agree that "stage parents" can pressure a child unduly. I just don't think it's universal, nor do I think that's what's being implied here.

Cathy

EDIT: Oh, I see. It was the word "accelerated" in the title that triggered you. But I stand by everything I said any way

Cathy

What's more, the literature on educating the gifted child shows that gifted kids actually *perform worse* if forced to advance more slowly than they're ready for. The usual argument school districts use for justifying their failure to fund gifted/talented programs is that it won't hurt the bright students to learn the material at a slower pace. The reality is that, yes, it hurts them significantly, and not just in terms of attitude--they'll actually start getting lower test scores etc. than if they were allowed to progress at the pace that's right for them.

In my view, all gifted programs
and prep schools should
be shuttered and everyone put
into the regular track in the
public school system, with
no groupings in the various classes,
that is, everyone sits in a
classroom where the students
are put at random. The teachers
in public schools are highly
educated and meticulously
trained professionals, and if
that's no good enough for anyone,
then nothing else will be.

These gifted programs and prep
schools often produce a bunch
of bums who have been coddled
all their lives in the academic
system and then can't function
in the real world. They need
a dose of reality that a
public school will give.

You often hear that so-called
gifted students are bored in
non-gifted classes, but isn't
this "boredom" simply a lack
of discipline? A sharp student
should be able to get along in
any kind of environment if he's
so smart. If he can't, that indicates
to me that he's pretty un-smart,
not smart.

codswallop.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, Gyro, but it is not one supported by the educational and psychological literature. The report "A nation deceived: How schools hold back America's brightest students" summarizes the scholarly data that refute just about everything you said in your reply.


Which, I guess, is an ever-more-polite way of saying "codswallop."

Morodiene,

Use your judgment about what important stuff might be skipped if you leave method books behind. Then fill it in on your own.

All I know is that my own son left method books for real literature very quickly (at the end of his first year) and it doesn't seem to have cost him anything in missed topics of importance.

I wouldn't skip anything. I would choose what stuff to do in the lesson (but not assign) and then assign just enough material to determine the concept is understood and applied. You can also choose appropriately challenging supplementary material that uses those concepts.

You can always find ways to challenge within the materials you have chosen. Otherwise, you do take the cahnce of missing important material. I have a transfer student like that now. Don't do it! You will end up backtracking anyway.

Scholarly data is often a lot of codswallop too.

And what about the others, those that are not judged the brightest, what's holding them back?

I have a couple of kids like that and I can sense that they're getting bored with the repetitiveness and the slowness in some of the method books.

With those kids, I tend to sit down with them, and in a couple of lessons, give them a fun little course in the very basics of full staff reading - grand staff, clefs, rhythms, what sharps or flats are, and how to read the notes (with the abbreviations.)

Then after a couple of weeks I transition them quickly to the Keith Snell repertoire series, primer level. The couple I have done that with, are as pleased as pie with themselves and are really loving the "real" music, and they have just taken off from there.

Sometimes I think many kids (not all) can handle a lot more than we give them credit for...

The kids I'm speaking of, are between age 8 and 11.

*Edited to add - I have 2 sons, with whom I skipped the method books entirely when they were 8. They were playing "real" music out of these repertoire books in a few days after learning how to read notes. From there I've just taught them theory and technique as we go along and they caught on super quickly.

A few weeks after they learned to read notes, I started them on 1 octave scales. And they're not musical geniuses by any stretch, just bright and eager to learn. I think for some kids, sticking them with a method book for 2-3 years is a great disservice.

Keep in mind, the repertoire of which I'm speaking of is very simple stuff, just like in some of the method books. However, it is written by "real" composers and are not all in the C position even right at the beginning. Most of the pieces are in C or G, some are in F. All are delightful, and now my kids fight me for practice time.

Can we please stick to the subject?

I never said he was "gifted" and the adjective "accelerated" was to be applied to the books, and not to the student. Why are you talking about prep schools and public schools in this thread?

I sensed that this boy is a bit bored with what this method book is providing, and I see that he needs to move ahead at a faster rate, thus the "accelerated". It is in response to his progress, and not me imposing it upon him. His parents aren't pushing him or anything, so stop making assumptions and hijacking threads to get on your own soap box, Gyro. If you want to talk about public vs. private schools, then make you own thread (when was the last time you did that, anyways?)

Sparkler, I think I may look into the Keith Snell series. I agree that getting him to play "real" pieces early on will keep him enthusiastic about piano. Thanks!

Er, sorry, Morodiene. That's what I get for engaging Gyro in debate.

To go back on track, why not ask your student if there are any pieces or songs he's dying to play? If he's getting through the method series so handily, being able to work on his favorite rock song, say, could be a motivating reward but not have the downside of him missing out on anything in the method series.

Morodiene,

Using supplement teaching books by music education composers is really a joy - you can find them at any level including primer. I, myself, don't use a published method but have 10 lessons of keyboard orientation using precharts and simple 5 finger positions with a range of about 9 melody notes (Middle C thumbs/Middle D thumbs/and various graphics that show the position; We concentrate on counting well, fingering well, phrasing and producing good sound for those 10 weeks. The music has been children's songs, folk tunes, and Christmas when appropriate.)

This is all the preparation I do before using the grand staff, but kids play fluently at this point and the transition to grand staff is not too difficult as graphics are still sometimes used, and I do teach music by positions (all 12 of the 5 fingered ones are learned). This makes the reading of music with accuracy quite a strong possibility. So I have confidence that good musicianship can be instilled timely and quickly without going into the methods.

When finished with this "orientation" it doesn't take very long, I go directly to supplements and next start early classics written by teaching composers during the evolution of the piano.

There's parts I've left off here but basically I think it's that easy - without thinking "accelerated" piano books.

A child is not really accelerating if the pace of his learning is being met. He is learning at or near his capacity.

I hope this posting helps without seeming like a commercial or arrogant. I would love an opportunity to teach and demonstrate to other teachers how this works - maybe as a summer program.

Please share that info with Teachers' Unions. Please.

One of our esteemed union reps told me the best classrooms are ones that draw on diverse experiences, from remedial to advanced. Yeah, try telling that to our math department!

Morodiene:

You can just assign a bunch of pieces at once. That's what I did when I was teaching out of Schaum and Thompson. I also had supplemental repertoire books at the prep level.

Or switch your student to Thompson. That's one accelerated program.

Some supplementary material I have found to be excellent is Carl Strommen And All That Jazz vol 1-3. Vol 1 may be a bit of a challenge for a student at level 2 HAl Leonard but I think it is doable and it is so fun to play along with the CD. A great way to build a sense of time and swing the eighths.
Hal Leonard does not advance as quickly as other methods so maybe assign more songs each week to get through the books quicker. It will really help the reading ability to have more songs to play.
It is a bit of a tough balance to move on to more challenging material too fast. I find that working on one supplemtary piece that is a bit of a challenge can mess with reading skills if the student does not increase their practice time with the increase in difficulty. Watch their eyes. If they start watching the hands a lot instead of the music, it's time to go back to some more simple pieces.

I believe that this is applicable
to the topic, since you say the
student is "bored." This is
the key word, in my view. You hear this
word used all the time in the context of
gifted students, accelerated
programs, advanced placement, and
the like. The students are
"bored" with material that is "too
easy" for them. When I hear this,
it make me want to puke, and I can't
see why it doesn't do the same
for the rest of you.

What is "boredom," but a lack of
discipline and initiative? If
a sharp student is "bored" with
material that is "unchallenging,"
then what is to keep him from
taking on more challenging material,
on his own? If he can't do that,
then that shows lack of initiative,
not smartness, in my view. And
in the real world boredom is
a fact of life. There are going
to be many periods in a person's
life where he may have to just
do busy work and be content
with twiddling his thumbs,
so to speak, since he
can't be breaking new barriers
constantly--that's just not
possible in the real world. This
practice in "boredom" is actually
good training for life; it teaches
discipline for the real world.
Students who cannot deal with
boredom have a serious problem,
in my view. They are avoiding
having to develop discipline
and initiative, things that are
essential of life in the real
world.

Gyro, how do you know he hasn't taken on songs on his own? Do you know this kid? In fact, he has taken on songs on his own, which is one of the signs to me that he's "bored." And someone being bored has nothing to do with private and public schools, which is what your previous post was ranting about. But I appreciate the backpedaling.

To everyone else, thanks for the pointers. It sounds like the best thing to do is assign some fun but challenging (not too challenging though) supplementary pieces for him to work on while giving him as much in the method as he can manage to get through it. We originally had a goal for this year of getting through Book 2 by Thanksgiving. He got off to a rough start this year because he decided to be in football, but we should still be able to finish at the very least before Christmas. Maybe I'll see if he has any interest in jazz, too.