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#1302887 - 11/10/09 05:56 PM Improvisation Advances and When It Syncs In
nitekatt2008z Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 552
I have found that going through a variety of pentatonic patterns, be-bop licks, transcribing solos from great jazz musicians I am inspired by, the brain and fingers get into an overload syndrome. It's almost compared to filling a glass with a favorite beverage continuously, drinking till you're satisfied, had enough, but the pouring keeps happening to overflow.

I am always trying to advance my skills with fresh ideas in improv, take some chances, explore new paths, risk screwing up a solo because the fingering might be wrong and a plethora of other paths. Then you sit there, put on a rhythm track to simulate a trio, pick a tune like Have You Met Miss Jones, There Will Never Be Another You, something medium up tempo and give it a shot. But then you find the brain and fingers are not in sync, the brain wants to go one direction, the fingers in another. Total chaos, new things you learned and worked on are every place except the right one. But then you take a day off, sit down at the piano/keyboard and then like a flash, stuff is pouring out, new, fresh ideas, a new direction.

Is this the way it works for some of us other jazz players here on the forum?

I'd say my main influences now are more modern sounding jazz pianists, George Cables, Brad M, Chick's pentatonic period in the 70's and Keith J. These are the players I'm listening to now and transcribing ideas from. I listen to Bill E and Oscar P everyday though to cop some new things. Still struggling with getting the right fingerings together with the pentatonics, those are tough to get down smooth like Chick does.

But I still hold the premise that in order to be good at improvising, you have to run some drills to get your fingers nd brain moving in some new areas, It may be awkward and frustrating in the beginning, but the work pays off every time when things sync up.

katt

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Piano & Music Accessories
#1303165 - 11/11/09 10:29 AM Re: Improvisation Advances and When It Syncs In [Re: nitekatt2008z]
Manndrew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 267
Loc: Massachusetts
Katt,

Being very new to jazz I'm wondering what exactly does it mean that you are influenced by Chick Corea's pentatonic period? By pentatonics are you talking about the pentatonic scale(s) and utilizing them in your improvs? Could you provide some examples of this style from maybe a youtube sample of Corea? I really don't know these alternative scales and would like to figure out how to use them myself. Thank you.

Andy
_________________________

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#1303217 - 11/11/09 11:52 AM Re: Improvisation Advances and When It Syncs In [Re: Manndrew]
Gyro Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 4533
My view on this is that it is
on those "bad" days, when you're
"not in sync" and everything is
"total chaos," that you advance,
not on the "good" days. Because
on the "bad" days, when nothing
is working like you want it to,
you then have a golden opportunity
to "take some chances,
explore new paths, and risk
screwing up," since you're lost
and have nowhere sure to go.
On the "good" days, you'll be too secure
and will tend to just do
business as usual, what you're
comfortable and familiar with,
and you then won't take any chances or
explore new territory.

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#1303224 - 11/11/09 12:09 PM Re: Improvisation Advances and When It Syncs In [Re: Manndrew]
nitekatt2008z Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 552
Hey Mann. I focus in on Chick Corea's pentatonic style that he was using on his early solo and trio albums, his most famous one being Now He Sings, Now He Sobs 1968. This album was ahead of its time then and many feel it still is "futuristic." Some feel that early period was Chick's prime, although he has been a very creative composer and performer ever since. His playing involves a continual stream of even eighth notes and triplets.

Here are some links you requested

Matrix, Chick's famous solo really pentatonics in action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-siRG5Uv9A
http://www.lucaspickford.com/transmatrix.htm transcription link

Now He Sings, Now He Sobs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxpUlUoS7Ck

Windows

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYiZnO0vflI

McCoy Tyner solo piano Giant Steps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PukuQPUKfyU

Chick and McCoy use open spread voicings in fourths and fifths which have a very modern, open sound.

See where this takes ya

katt

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#1303270 - 11/11/09 01:10 PM Re: Improvisation Advances and When It Syncs In [Re: nitekatt2008z]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
Corea was playing like McCoy's style on "Now He Sings, Now He Sobs", and doing it better than McCoy. There is a complete transcription book of "Now He Sings, Now He Sobs."

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#1303721 - 11/11/09 11:27 PM Re: Improvisation Advances and When It Syncs In [Re: Jazz+]
nitekatt2008z Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 552
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
Corea was playing like McCoy's style on "Now He Sings, Now He Sobs", and doing it better than McCoy. There is a complete transcription book of "Now He Sings, Now He Sobs."


Jazz, is the transcription book you are referring to by Bill Dobbins? I heard it was out of print.

katt

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#1303993 - 11/12/09 12:14 PM Re: Improvisation Advances and When It Syncs In [Re: nitekatt2008z]
Manndrew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 267
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: nitekatt2008z
Hey Mann.
Here are some links you requested

Chick and McCoy use open spread voicings in fourths and fifths which have a very modern, open sound.

See where this takes ya

katt



Thanks for the links Katt. I'll check them out. So, is Corea using the actual pentatonic scale in his improvs?

Andy
_________________________

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#1304487 - 11/13/09 12:43 AM Re: Improvisation Advances and When It Syncs In [Re: Manndrew]
nitekatt2008z Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 552
Originally Posted By: Manndrew
Originally Posted By: nitekatt2008z
Hey Mann.
Here are some links you requested

Chick and McCoy use open spread voicings in fourths and fifths which have a very modern, open sound.

See where this takes ya

katt



Thanks for the links Katt. I'll check them out. So, is Corea using the actual pentatonic scale in his improvs?

Andy


Yep, absolutely, Chick is weaving various pentatonic patterns through the changes. The challenge with playing smooth pentatonic patterns at fast tempos is getting the fingerings down. I have Pentatonic Scales for Jazz Improvisations by Ramon Ricker. Great book full of scales, licks, transcribed solos, patterns, but no fingering recommendations. You have to figure out the best fingerings and literally write them out note by note to get the phrases smooth. I imagine Chick probably spent hour after hour playing pentatonic patterns, writing out patterns and learning them in all 12 keys. His playing is smooth as silk but still swinging. Try to get the book, it's the best I've seen so far that explains the theory and hands on approach to becoming a master at pentatonic improvisation. I am presently working on Steps off Chick Now He Sings CD. I am learning it bar by bar, slowly playing the patterns and getting the fingerings down.

katt


Edited by nitekatt2008z (11/13/09 12:45 AM)

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